Backing Tracks

[Lync]

We opened up for 2 different national country bands this summer and both used backing tracks (first band they tested the tracks at soundcheck and the second band told us, showed us their set up and the "star" said their bass player couldn't make it and kind of apologized to me lol). The first band had a bass player but there was a tracked bass line...I watched him drop his pick and casually walk over to the side to grab another and then play again. The music never changed. The second band used it for click and bass and I'm not even sure what else.

To me this is karaoke and cheating. Yes it is show biz, but live music should have the ability to be spontaneous and raw at times...even mistakes sometimes make the song better. Plus, I like when bands create studio parts with just the instruments they have. It make the song different but still the same.

Thoughts on tracks? According to chatgpt, bass players have the highest percentage for losing their job from the use of backing tracks.

 

[tubedude]

Live should be live. The spontaneous creation of music from live players listening to each other and responding is what.makes live music valuable. Otherwise I could stay home and play the stereo.
Though the genereal public seems to want the recorded note for note version.

 

[PNW Tony]

This makes me angry. Especially because I have no way of knowing in advance that the performance I've paid for is going to be all or partially karaoke. It's happened to me three times recently. Most recently was last month, when I went to see the amazing blues-rock singer/guitarist Jackie Venson at a smallish local club. I've seen her perform before at festivals and was really looking forward to this show. I even booked a front row table next to the stage and brought friends. It turned out to be just Jackie Venson and a (very good) drummer and backing tracks. Rats! Adding insult to injury, she performed most of the songs with a heavy dose of autotune on her vocals. She has a great voice and doesn't need the 'support'. I believe she thinks it'll help her with a younger audience. This nonsense performance made me very unhappy. If I'd been there alone, I'd have left. Such a cheesy letdown.

 

[s0c9]

Having worked both sides of the stage for many years, it's pretty common. One or more input channels for "trax". BGV's, instruments that don't exist in the band, etc. I'm not sure the punters know, or care, even tho many musicians do.
Goes back to the "Is it live, or is it Memorex" thing!
Like the OP, I've put bands on stage that are mixed by their "guy" who give me a L/R feed off their mixer. Makes my job easy, but when the bass guitar is clapping his hands above his head to get the crowd fired up - and a bass line is playing thru the PA. well.. <shrug>
Many touring acts use autotune due to the number of gigs in a row. The voices can't handle it, especially the older bands!

Some of my bands (I play with) use tracks. Most don't.

My tribute band uses them extensively - so any of the members who are missing can be covered by the track. When many of the original music is heavily orchestrated, replicating them is easiest with track - so the band can sound like the original. What's the point in being a tribute if you "do your own thing"?
Click also. This tribute also uses cues (like church bands do) for count-ins, verse, chorus, bridge and other section notices.
Makes playing pretty easy. They never replace bass.

 

[Lync]

This makes me angry. Especially because I have no way of knowing in advance that the performance I've paid for is going to be all or partially karaoke. It's happened to me three times recently. Most recently was last month, when I went to see the amazing blues-rock singer/guitarist Jackie Venson at a smallish local club. I've seen her perform before at festivals and was really looking forward to this show. I even booked a front row table next to the stage and brought friends. It turned out to be just Jackie Venson and a (very good) drummer and backing tracks. Rats! Adding insult to injury, she performed most of the songs with a heavy dose of autotune on her vocals. She has a great voice and doesn't need the 'support'. I believe she thinks it'll help her with a younger audience. This nonsense performance made me very unhappy. If I'd been there alone, I'd have left. Such

Having worked both sides of the stage for many years, it's pretty common. One or more input channels for "trax". BGV's, instruments that don't exist in the band, etc. I'm not sure the punters know, or care, even tho many musicians do.
Goes back to the "Is it live, or is it Memorex" thing!
Like the OP, I've put bands on stage that are mixed by their "guy" who give me a L/R feed off their mixer. Makes my job easy, but when the bass guitar is clapping his hands above his head to get the crowd fired up - and a bass line is playing thru the PA. well.. <shrug>
Many touring acts use autotune due to the number of gigs in a row. The voices can't handle it, especially the older bands!

Some of my bands (I play with) use tracks. Most don't.

My tribute band uses them extensively - so any of the members who are missing can be covered by the track. When many of the original music is heavily orchestrated, replicating them is easiest with track - so the band can sound like the original. What's the point in being a tribute if you "do your own thing"?
Click also. This tribute also uses cues (like church bands do) for count-ins, verse, chorus, bridge and other section notices.
Makes playing pretty easy. They never replace bass.

Good to hear but the artist we opened for the other night used tracks to replace bass. Dillon Carmichael.

When this band discussion all went down I used the same tool that is going to kill me off. Like I said…AI says bassists are the first to go. What used to be job security due to a lack of bassists is actually now used against us. Why bother? We’ll use the track and not have to pay you.


I blame the audience…they don’t seem to care. Parmalee was the other band who used tracks. They said everyone else does and to sound as good they need to use them too.

I am 55 and have been playing bass since I was 14…started because of Steve Harris so I have always done my best to make my bass playing drive the band and be more than some dude in the back for just extra low end for the kick. But…man…is this the end? Karaoke is now the live experience? Why bother learning tunes correctly if you are covered? Showbiz has always been about youth but live music at least was artistic.

 

[s0c9]

Good to hear but the artist we opened for the other night used tracks to replace bass. Dillon Carmichael.

When this band discussion all went down I used the same tool that is going to kill me off. Like I said…AI says bassists are the first to go. What used to be job security due to a lack of bassists is actually now used against us. Why bother? We’ll use the track and not have to pay you.


I blame the audience…they don’t seem to care. Parmalee was the other band who used tracks. They said everyone else does and to sound as good they need to use them too.

I am 55 and have been playing bass since I was 14…started because of Steve Harris so I have always done my best to make my bass playing drive the band and be more than some dude in the back for just extra low end for the kick. But…man…is this the end? Karaoke is now the live experience? Why bother learning tunes correctly if you are covered? Showbiz has always been about youth but live music at least was artistic.

I totally empathize. I'm not a pro bassist (meaning I don't make a living from playing) but I'm heavily invested in what I do.
I don't normally go to "concerts" because I'm usually playing (or running FOH) on weekends, so my comments above are based on my own observations, not hearing major artists using tracks. Lots of bands have become "karaoke" groups!

 

[AK Bass Guy]

My take on backing tracks is this.
If it’s something like a backing drum machine part, I don’t see any real difference between pressing go on a preprogrammed hardware drum machine or if it’s a prerecorded backing drum machine part.
Another exception for me would be foley sounds.

If the backing track has bass, guitar, keys, horns, Latin percussion and drums it’s really cheesy.
Unfortunately egregious backing tracks are quite common in places like cruise ships, amusement parks, and Vegas type shows.

Worst part is most casual listeners don’t care or notice when they are used heavily.

 

[J Wilson]

So many of them can't sing, so why would they need a road band that can play? And everybody else involved could care less, the crowd, management, the hall, the Union stage hands and electricians, everybody.

There's nothing on the back of the ticket that says if you spot them singing to tracks, your money back. Civilians . . . . don't care one bit.

 

[BassGuyFL]

Derek Frank played on and off with Shania Train for a good while. He said that on one tour they were focusing more on dancers and just had most of the bass on tracks so he sat that tour out. And then the next tour he was on it.

You’d be really amazed at how many big names use tracks these days. I’m pretty sure AC/DC and Nickelback don’t but other than who really knows.

 

[eniac]

I figure if the presence of heavy backing tracks lines up with audience expectations, or at least doesn't reduce the performance's value to the audience, then there's no problem.

What I do have a problem with is when there's a bass player (who's actually playing) and there's backing track energy in the 32-to-250 Hz region. That just makes no sense from a SR 101 perspective and that alone should put the kibosh on the notion. An interesting exception is what New Order typically does, because of the range Peter Hook (and his replacement) play in. For instance (listen with GOOD headphones):



You can hear the backing track in the intro, choruses, and outro. And, frequency range-wise there's no intrusion one upon the other. That imo is the crucial part. I think it's really well done.

 

[TheArchitect]

We opened up for 2 different national country bands this summer and both used backing tracks (first band they tested the tracks at soundcheck and the second band told us, showed us their set up and the "star" said their bass player couldn't make it and kind of apologized to me lol). The first band had a bass player but there was a tracked bass line...I watched him drop his pick and casually walk over to the side to grab another and then play again. The music never changed. The second band used it for click and bass and I'm not even sure what else.

To me this is karaoke and cheating. Yes it is show biz, but live music should have the ability to be spontaneous and raw at times...even mistakes sometimes make the song better. Plus, I like when bands create studio parts with just the instruments they have. It make the song different but still the same.

Thoughts on tracks? According to chatgpt, bass players have the highest percentage for losing their job from the use of backing tracks.

What you are describing is inexcusable.

That said, tracks to augment the live players I have no issue with. The occasional keyboard part, horn stabs, 4th guitar part etc that the live players just can't cover, I have no issue with that. The last band I was in used tracks for bass and drums. 1) We just could not find players and 2) as it turns out, without a live kit, we were able to book into a lot of places that we could not have otherwise been able to.

 

[staccatogrowl]

AI says bassists are the first to go

What if the bassist is the one that programs tracks? For example, I use Ableton to program, produce, and mix for our group. I've done this for almost a decade. We never use tracks to replace any live musician on stage.

My tribute band uses them extensively - so any of the members who are missing can be covered by the track.

We've had band members cancel 1/2-hour before performance. No problem. Press Ableton's "enable" track button and cover the part. The performance goes on as planned, without unnecessary stress. However, this requires that the entire song is arranged with stems for every part, whether used or not.

That said, tracks to augment the live players. . the occasional keyboard part, horn stabs, 4th guitar part etc that the live players just can't cover, I have no issue with. The last band I was in used tracks for bass and drums. 1) We just could not find players and 2) as it turns out, without a live kit, we were able to book into a lot of places that we could not have otherwise been able to.

Technology as enhancement vs replacement. Definitely works for me, and countless others. The audience doesn't notice or care. Mostly, they just want to hear the music in the fashion that they are accustomed to, expect, and want.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

We opened up for 2 different national country bands this summer and both used backing tracks (first band they tested the tracks at soundcheck and the second band told us, showed us their set up and the "star" said their bass player couldn't make it and kind of apologized to me lol). The first band had a bass player but there was a tracked bass line...I watched him drop his pick and casually walk over to the side to grab another and then play again. The music never changed. The second band used it for click and bass and I'm not even sure what else.

To me this is karaoke and cheating. Yes it is show biz, but live music should have the ability to be spontaneous and raw at times...even mistakes sometimes make the song better. Plus, I like when bands create studio parts with just the instruments they have. It make the song different but still the same.

Thoughts on tracks? According to chatgpt, bass players have the highest percentage for losing their job from the use of backing tracks.

I think it depends. First of all, those of us that grew up in 60’s and 70’s we were subjected to band performance on TV shows like the Ed Sullivan, the Monkees, Smothers Brothers where it was painfully obvious nobody was playing anything. It was debatable if even the lead vocal was legit. Nobody cared. I’m not finding today’s use of tracks that unusual

That said, show business is a business and like any other business the goal is profit. Overhead is a major concern and consistency of the product is just as important. Think of it this way, say you like Del Monte brand green beans. How many cans of beans with a few bad beans in them is it going to take for you to switch brands? How long would it take for word to get around? Silly, but think it though.

Personally, as a musician I am too inconsistent as a player to be a top flight A list performer (set aside visually my stage presence is as thrilling as a potted plant). Episodes of sheer brilliance intermixed with episodes of What da f***!!!. I’m sure there are more than a few of us that can relate to this, in various ratios of course.

So, from a “business” stand point, I totally get tracks. From an artist’s perspective I find it somewhat offensive. As an aging boomer “Eh..seen it before, big deal! Over the years I’ve probably have played in form of maybe a couple of million people added up. In conclusion, if the ”star” wants tracks, and I’m getting paid, I don’t care. Sure I’d rather play my own parts, but I’d rather get paid than sit at home.

 

[tshapiro]

One thing to think about is there are different capability levels with tracks… it’s not like you have them or don’t. The way my band does it is very fairly sophisticated. We have a click track, none of the parts played live are on the track, and we typically only add accompany parts which are not practical to add live. So, for a lot of the track there’s just the click. For example, 3 keyboard parts… my keyboardist will play the main part live and we may have the other parts. On the track. We by no means need the tracks to sound good. If fact, we regularly stop the track mid song and just ad just go ad-lib. I would add a few things… playing to a click live takes a lot of skill or someone is going to get off and it’s going to be a train wreck. Additionally, the on-stage communication has got to be really strong to get off with the track and then be able to recover and get back to the song structure. And, playing with feel in perfect time takes a very good sense of timing… it usually takes new band members months to catch on… and they still need assistance to help them find there way back when they’re off. One thing that I did find surprising is when U2 played Japan live, whoever mixed the video made a mistake and from about 50 minutes to 90 minutes you can actually hear the click track and callouts. What’s really interesting is there are many times when things seem ad-lib or broken down, but, in hearing the the click you can see that the whole thing is orchestrated. The last point is that, to do it right usually takes custom building track that have a click-callout side and a FOH side. It’s a tremendous amount of work when done right. And, it takes a fairly sophosticated setup to make it illusive live. All this being said, I think it’s a misconception that using tracks makes things easier. Admittedly, some band might do it ‘karaoke’ style. But, most pro bands and touring acts that I’ve seen use them are doing things in addition to killing it musically.

 

[Bob_Ross]

I've played a number of gigs that were "track acts" and they always made me feel like I needed to take a shower after I was done. This is not what I signed up for when I became a professional musician a bazillion years ago!

I have no idea if any of the concerts I've ever attended as an audience member involved pre-recorded tracks...definitely some sequencers & drum machines, and I suppose those get a pass because, what the hell, it was the 80s.

 

[TheArchitect]

One thing to think about is there are different capability levels with tracks… it’s not like you have them or don’t. The way my band does it is very fairly sophisticated. We have a click track, none of the parts played live are on the track, and we typically only add accompany parts which are not practical to add live. So, for a lot of the track there’s just the click. For example, 3 keyboard parts… my keyboardist will play the main part live and we may have the other parts. On the track. We by no means need the tracks to sound good. If fact, we regularly stop the track mid song and just ad just go ad-lib. I would add a few things… playing to a click live takes a lot of skill or someone is going to get off and it’s going to be a train wreck. Additionally, the on-stage communication has got to be really strong to get off with the track and then be able to recover and get back to the song structure. And, playing with feel in perfect time takes a very good sense of timing… it usually takes new band members months to catch on… and they still need assistance to help them find there way back when they’re off. One thing that I did find surprising is when U2 played Japan live, whoever mixed the video made a mistake and from about 50 minutes to 90 minutes you can actually hear the click track and callouts. What’s really interesting is there are many times when things seem ad-lib or broken down, but, in hearing the the click you can see that the whole thing is orchestrated. The last point is that, to do it right usually takes custom building track that have a click-callout side and a FOH side. It’s a tremendous amount of work when done right. And, it takes a fairly sophosticated setup to make it illusive live. All this being said, I think it’s a misconception that using tracks makes things easier. Admittedly, some band might do it ‘karaoke’ style. But, most pro bands and touring acts that I’ve seen use them are doing things in addition to killing it musically.

This is extremely similar to what my last band did. It is a tremendous amount of work to to build the tracks etc but when properly executed works extremely well.

 

[GTHintz]

We opened up for 2 different national country bands this summer and both used backing tracks (first band they tested the tracks at soundcheck and the second band told us, showed us their set up and the "star" said their bass player couldn't make it and kind of apologized to me lol). The first band had a bass player but there was a tracked bass line...I watched him drop his pick and casually walk over to the side to grab another and then play again. The music never changed. The second band used it for click and bass and I'm not even sure what else.

To me this is karaoke and cheating. Yes it is show biz, but live music should have the ability to be spontaneous and raw at times...even mistakes sometimes make the song better. Plus, I like when bands create studio parts with just the instruments they have. It make the song different but still the same.

Thoughts on tracks? According to chatgpt, bass players have the highest percentage for losing their job from the use of backing tracks.

Unless you're doing something that you'll absolutely never pull a decent live raw sound from then backing tracks are just theater instead of music. It's like shooting a music video when someone is paying to go to a concert. I get samples and small pre recorded aides but if it's the whole song then I think it's pointless to even be out there.

 

[promdates]

Having the bass track live when the bassist is on stage is an issue. Having non-playable parts in the tracks that can't be covered live on stage is not. Yes, someone can make the argument "just hire a keyboard/horn/etc. player". That can only go so far before it's not worth it to even play live.

We use tracks live, but it's just stuff that none of us on stage are doing. So that's keys, strings, sound fx, etc. There's a couple of songs that have extra guitar parts put in when there's a solo, but that's just to thicken the song up a bit and it's not for the entire song. We also have our whole stage show done through midi, so lights and pedal changes.

Using it as a tool to make the show better and be more entertaining is one thing, using it to replace the people on stage when they're standing there miming is not okay.

aside: I hadn't even thought of a band using drum tracks to play smaller venues, or people playing to bass/drum tracks while playing guitar and singing...