BadAss II bridge opinions...

[Meatrus]

+1 So right about that observation!

Not really, it can be easily solved by shimming the neck.

 

[bass349]

Hey I'm also interested in this since I noticed recently that one of the screws/springs that adjust the saddle seems to have fallen off/out of the bridge on my jazz.. Weird eh?!

Are both the gotoh and baII both direct swaps with no drilling for new screw holes needed?

Cheers!

 

[Chasarms]

. . . Are both the gotoh and baII both direct swaps with no drilling for new screw holes needed? . . .

Yes.

When I was in college, (20 years ago) I was in a little country music store that I often frequented, and they had thrown a bunch of BAII bridges in the clearence dump bin. I bought everyone of them, 5 or 6, for $10 each.

I gave a couple of them away. I installed them on both the Fender basses that I owned at the time. I have no idea whatever happened to rest of them.

While they are really nice, and I love how easy they make setup, for the life of me, I never experienced any earth-shattering impact on the performance of the bass, whether it be feel or tone. Any changes I have experienced are always VERY subtle.

They are great. If you want a BAII, go for it. But there are a BUNCH of ways to spend $100 on a bass that will have a greater impact on its performance.

 

[JimmyKickButt]

I have them both, as said before but on different basses and have never swapped them, so I'm willing to accept there is a difference. Just I cant see how it could work .

Different metals, overall mass of the bridge, and I'd imagine even the saddle style all could play into a difference in tone.

 

[Tusec]

Different metals, overall mass of the bridge, and I'd imagine even the saddle style all could play into a difference in tone.

I think different metals and saddle styles would have, at best, a very subtle effect on tone.

The added mass seems like it might have a big effect, but when you think about it, it really doesn't. Here's why: when you screw the bridge tightly to the body, it effectively becomes part of the overall mass of the body. But the bridge is small compared to the body mass, so it's contribution to the overall tone will be small. This is true of either BAII or stock type bridge. The BAII, though it does add some mass, doesn't add nearly enough to make a meaningful tonal difference.

I would be willing to bet big money that a blind A/B test between stock and BAII bridges would show zero noticeable difference in tone.

In fact, it would be cool if TB would arrange some blind tests to test some of the more common tone beliefs. I would love to see the following scrutinized:

-- tubes sound better ("warmer") than solid state

-- string brand matters

-- fingerboard wood has a noticeable effect on tone

-- tone capacitor type/brand matters

 

[Meatrus]

Different metals, overall mass of the bridge, and I'd imagine even the saddle style all could play into a difference in tone.

I had considered all of those except the saddles, which may be it, as they have more surface touching the bridge (the side rails things) on the BA.

The mass difference between the two I cant imagine anyones ear could hear, and the steel seems to be pretty standard stuff, despite what the marketing says about the BA.

I bought my two for solidity, and the feel improvment, the tone side would have been a welcome benefit but even compared to the stock Fender ones the tone difference wasnt massive (although it was there). So IMO if your looking to change the tone noticeably I would invest elsewhere as Chasarms said. But if your looking for a great bridge, either one will suit.

Oh, also I recently found out, if your planning on using a bridge cover at any point, it wont fit over the badass but will the Gotoh.

 

[JimmyKickButt]

Meatrus: I don't intend on using a bridge cover at any point, but that's a good thing to know. Thanks.

In general: Above stated idea about possible tone difference was simply a hypothesis. In all actuality I don't have an opinion either way because I've never used either bridges. Which is the point of the thread

 

[Meatrus]

I think different metals and saddle styles would have, at best, a very subtle effect on tone.

The added mass seems like it might have a big effect, but when you think about it, it really doesn't. Here's why: when you screw the bridge tightly to the body, it effectively becomes part of the overall mass of the body. But the bridge is small compared to the body mass, so it's contribution to the overall tone will be small. This is true of either BAII or stock type bridge. The BAII, though it does add some mass, doesn't add nearly enough to make a meaningful tonal difference.

I would be willing to bet big money that a blind A/B test between stock and BAII bridges would show zero noticeable difference in tone.

In fact, it would be cool if TB would arrange some blind tests to test some of the more common tone beliefs. I would love to see the following scrutinized:

-- tubes sound better ("warmer") than solid state

-- string brand matters

-- fingerboard wood has a noticeable effect on tone

-- tone capacitor type/brand matters

I agree with a lot of that. But the sound test would be quite irrelevant to me, and alot of other people (and of course the OP after seeing his latest post). I change my bridges for solidity, looks, and IMO feel is improved. I also couldnt disagree more about string brand, but thats a different story we wont go into here (please )

 

[Tusec]

I agree with a lot of that. But the sound test would be quite irrelevant to me, and alot of other people (and of course the OP after seeing his latest post). I change my bridges for solidity, looks, and IMO feel is improved. I also couldnt disagree more about string brand, but thats a different story we wont go into here (please )

I hear ya, though I'll be nitpicky and say I don't see how the BAII can improve either solidity or feel. Looks I can understand -- the aftermarket bridges definitely look studlier than the stock Fender bridges.

Course at the end of the day it's whatever makes you happy. I went back to a stock bridge mainly because I wanted to keep the vintage vibe.

 

[JimmyKickButt]

heheh... This horse ain't dead yet, so I'm going to kick it again. Could alleged tone differences be caused by the fact that the saddle adjusting screws (the ones for adjusting your action) are more or less locked into place by the slots?

 

[JimmyKickButt]

Also, since it's been mentioned several times, what can be changed to change tone? I'm looking for a brighter tone. I'm assuming pups are going to be one the things... what else?

 

[John Wentzien]

I like the Gotoh over the Badass.
Can't stand the "sharp" feel of the saddles...The Gotoh is much, much "Smoover" IMO

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I play a '06 Fender jazz MIM, and am interested in installing BadAss II bridge on it. It was a mod that came highly suggest by a local bassist that I respect, but I'm curious what other have to say. Give me your thoughts. Thanks.

it will not improve your MIM fender any more than just putting a decent but cheaper Gotoh bridge on it. High-mass bridges like the BA II are wildly overrated.

A much better investment of your money would be to save for a better overall bass... But if you really dig how that particular ax plays but have issues with the sound (which is why you are considering a new bridge), use that money for p'ups. P'ups and strings are where the sound comes from.

 

[Meatrus]

I hear ya, though I'll be nitpicky and say I don't see how the BAII can improve either solidity or feel. Looks I can understand -- the aftermarket bridges definitely look studlier than the stock Fender bridges.

Course at the end of the day it's whatever makes you happy. I went back to a stock bridge mainly because I wanted to keep the vintage vibe.

Its ok I have an answer for everything . My answer would be yes to what the OP has just asked. The saddles on the stock bridge give, if only a tiny bit, they do. Theres nothing to stop them moving, push it hard enough and it will move alot. Meaning your string isnt as tight in feel when plucked, as it is giving, and energy is wasted. This is my theory on why they sound slightly better, and I'm not sure there is anything more to it than that, but the tension feel is definitely different with the aftermarket ones.

 

[Tusec]

Could alleged tone differences be caused by the fact that the saddle adjusting screws (the ones for adjusting your action) are more or less locked into place by the slots?

Nope. For one thing they're only more or less locked into place, not truly locked into place. What actually holds the saddles in place is the strings' own downward pressure, and this is true for both the stock Fender and the BAII bridges. This is what supplies the acoustical rigidity in both.

Leo Fender was a clever guy. He never over-engineered anything. When you look at a Fender bridge you are seeing perfect economy of design. It does what it needs to do and nothing more.

Of course this is great for the aftermarket guys, because they can take the perfectly functional original design, double the thickness of everything, use finer threaded machine screws, use impressive looking machined parts -- then when people see it they say "Wow, look at that...that must sound great!" because that's what their eyes tell them.

 

[Tusec]

Its ok I have an answer for everything . My answer would be yes to what the OP has just asked. The saddles on the stock bridge give, if only a tiny bit, they do. Theres nothing to stop them moving, push it hard enough and it will move alot. Meaning your string isnt as tight in feel when plucked, as it is giving, and energy is wasted. This is my theory on why they sound slightly better, and I'm not sure there is anything more to it than that, but the tension feel is definitely different with the aftermarket ones.

No, actually they don't give. String vibration causes no movement between the saddles and the bridge plate. And even if they did move a tiny amount, the BAII's adjustment screw grooves are too loose to do anything about it. They allow a fair amount of play.

As for the string tension, the BAII doesn't change the scale length so the string tension is the same. Nor does it change the break angle enough to make a difference. In fact, if anything the BAII has less break angle, which would mean less down force on the saddles, which would actually mean less solidity and looser acoustical coupling.

 

[JimmyKickButt]

Alright. I've heard what's to be said and have decided to save my money. Thank you all very much for your time and opinions.

 

[Meatrus]

No, actually they don't give. String vibration causes no movement between the saddles and the bridge plate. And even if they did move a tiny amount, the BAII's adjustment screw grooves are too loose to do anything about it. They allow a fair amount of play.

As for the string tension, the BAII doesn't change the scale length so the string tension is the same. Nor does it change the break angle enough to make a difference. In fact, if anything the BAII has less break angle, which would mean less down force on the saddles, which would actually mean less solidity and looser acoustical coupling.

Not wanting to use the wrong word, but I'm struggling to think of another word which isnt as offensive. I can tell you for a 100% fact that the saddles can (not that they will to a large extent) move on the stock bridge, and has done so many times to me. I cant even see why you would think otherwise, the BA and the Gotoh (amongst no doubt others) have the things to stop the saddles moving for a reason....

With regard to the tension this has been done a few times on TB, the scale length can be the same on two different basses with the same strings yet one has the FEEL (not actual tension) of increased tension, which can be down to stiffness of the neck, and bridge.

The BA I have has no gaps between the saddles either, you couldnt fit a pin down the edges.

 

[Tusec]

Not wanting to use the wrong word, but I'm struggling to think of another word which isnt as offensive. I can tell you for a 100% fact that the saddles can (not that they will to a large extent) move on the stock bridge, and has done so many times to me. I cant even see why you would think otherwise, the BA and the Gotoh (amongst no doubt others) have the things to stop the saddles moving for a reason....

With regard to the tension this has been done a few times on TB, the scale length can be the same on two different basses with the same strings yet one has the FEEL (not actual tension) of increased tension, which can be down to stiffness of the neck, and bridge.

The BA I have has no gaps between the saddles either, you couldnt fit a pin down the edges.

The stock bridge doesn't have slots so obviously the saddles can shift if you push on them with your fingers or if you have a string badly off center. But under normal conditions, they don't shift.

And they definitely do not move as a result of string vibration. The friction between the adjustment screws and the baseplate is sufficient for them to resist the tiny string vibration force without moving. And even if there were a tiny movement -- which there isn't -- it wouldn't be stopped since there is play in the slots and gaps between the saddles (if you can see any daylight between them, there's a gap).

If there is no vibrational movement, then there is no effect on the tone. And if you have the strings centered and don't push on the saddles, then saddle shifting is a non-issue.

So again, I don't see the advantage of the BAII other than it looks pretty cool.

RE the feel of tension. Yes, a stiffer neck can definitely make a bass feel more solid. But the bridge can't have that effect -- not if the strings are secured equally well during playing as is the case with the stock bridge and the GAII. Both provide a solid anchor for the strings.

 

[Meatrus]

The stock bridge doesn't have slots so obviously the saddles can shift if you push on them with your fingers or if you have a string badly off center. But under normal conditions, they don't shift.

And they definitely do not move as a result of string vibration. The friction between the adjustment screws and the baseplate is sufficient for them to resist the tiny string vibration force without moving. And even if there were a tiny movement -- which there isn't -- it wouldn't be stopped since there is play in the slots and gaps between the saddles (if you can see any daylight between them, there's a gap).

If there is no vibrational movement, then there is no effect on the tone. And if you have the strings centered and don't push on the saddles, then saddle shifting is a non-issue.

So again, I don't see the advantage of the BAII other than it looks pretty cool.

RE the feel of tension. Yes, a stiffer neck can definitely make a bass feel more solid. But the bridge can't have that effect -- not if the strings are secured equally well during playing as is the case with the stock bridge and the GAII. Both provide a solid anchor for the strings.

I'm fine to agree to disagree, but I'm not sure you understood my meaning of shift.

The string vibration has nothing to do with it, I'm talking about the pulling/pushing action of a pick or fingers, do it to hard and the saddle moves. While you can be sure the saddles cant move under normal circumstances for you, you cant for other people. It has happened to me a couple of times. It could have been down to playing style etc, but on the last note of a song, I like to emphasize that note so could hit it a bit harder. I don't like having a bridge sitting there telling me I cant do that, or it will slide about. This cant happen on either the BA or Gotoh, and is actually believe it or not why they have those features.