Band Licences

[Gluvhand]

I don't agree because the music is already being paid for by someone. What gives them the right to charge again? I think it's a legal slippery slope and I bet it gets contested.

The only way around it would be if the band were full time employees of the clubs/bars and were receiving hourly wages. They're not. They are going in as a completely separate business enterprise and being paid as such. And don't confuse my arguing/discussing this as agreeing with it. I sure as hell don't want to have to pay a fee for playing covers in crappy bars.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I don't agree because the music is already being paid for by someone. What gives them the right to charge again? I think it's a legal slippery slope and I bet it gets contested.

Look at it this way:

- You are in Anytown USA.
- ABC, Inc. is a general contractor in that town that does commercial construction.
- DEF, Inc. is an electrician in that town. ABC uses DEF on its projects.

Both are businesses doing business in the same location. Both can be taxed by Anytown, or be required to get licenses.

 

[Meghans Dad]

Look at it this way:

- You are in Anytown USA.
- ABC, Inc. is a general contractor in that town that does commercial construction.
- DEF, Inc. is an electrician in that town. ABC uses DEF on its projects.

Both are businesses doing business in the same location. Both can be taxed by Anytown, or be required to get licenses.

Following your analogy, does DEF have to pay the license fee to work for ABC or do another job in Anytown, even if DEF it was not based or the owner did not reside in Anytown?

 

[Gluvhand]

Following your analogy, does DEF have to pay the license fee to work for ABC or do another job in Anytown, even if DEF it was not based or the owner did not reside in Anytown.

If we were going with the construction analogy, yes. ABC would have a general construction permit and the licenses required and DEF would have to have permits and licenses to work in Anytown. Licenses are reciprocal in some jurisdictions but filing fees and taxes would still be paid to the local jurisdiction the work is being performed in and DEF would still have to pay a license fee to perform work in the jurisdiction. The reciprocal part would only mean they didn't have to take a test to get the license in Anytown. Just that they acknowledge you meet their criteria for holding the license.

 

[Meghans Dad]

If we were going with the construction analogy, yes. ABC would have a general construction permit and the licenses required and DEF would have to have permits and licenses to work in Anytown. Licenses are reciprocal in some jurisdictions but filing fees and taxes would still be paid to the local jurisdiction the work is being performed in and DEF would still have to pay a license fee to perform work in the jurisdiction. The reciprocal part would only mean they didn't have to take a test to get the license in Anytown. Just that they acknowledge you meet their criteria for holding the license.

Thanks for the answer-not that I like it, but that's not your fault. So what's next? Will the city be able to decide who can get a license and set criteria? Will there be a musician's contractor's exam?

 

[Gluvhand]

Thanks for the answer-not that I like it, but that's not your fault. So what's next? Will the city be able to decide who can get a license and set criteria? Will there be a musician's contractor's exam?

In a lot of cases, speaking about Electrical Contractor licenses specifically, the board that administers tests and approves licenses is made up of other local license holders. You can imagine how that goes. It goes back to something I mentioned earlier. The local musicians that are very busy and territorial may not put up much of a stink about this.

 

[Music Attorney]

Do they require every individual self employed contractor to register as a business or just the businesses themselves?

Yep. The statutory language clearly says "Every person."

 

[Music Attorney]

Sounds like a double-dip, and a possible lawsuit, considering they already charge venues a yearly fee for having cover bands.

What would the basis of the lawsuit be?

The ordinance is clear that the license tax is for the privilege of doing business in MB. It’s a standalone license for a standalone right (or privilege, as they call it). Accordingly, the venue’s privilege to do business is completely separate and licensable from its right to perform music, serve alcohol, etc. (each of which can require separate licenses, fees, and taxes).

Within the venue there is a separate “person” (which the ordinance deems to mean individuals as well as partnerships, LLCs, corporations, etc.) that is engaged in a business (i.e., in the form of a band). Therefore, in order for the band to have the privilege of engaging in their business, they need a business license. Again, it’s a standalone license for a standalone purpose. It makes no difference whether the music is licensed, the alcohol is licensed, etc.

MA

 

[Music Attorney]

There is some good info on this page 7 that makes my post above (which was based on some page 6 responses) somewhat duplicative.

 

[BusyFingers]

What would the basis of the lawsuit be?

The ordinance is clear that the license tax is for the privilege of doing business in MB. It’s a standalone license for a standalone right (or privilege, as they call it). Accordingly, the venue’s privilege to do business is completely separate and licensable from its right to perform music, serve alcohol, etc. (each of which can require separate licenses, fees, and taxes).

Within the venue there is a separate “person” (which the ordinance deems to mean individuals as well as partnerships, LLCs, corporations, etc.) that is engaged in a business (i.e., in the form of a band). Therefore, in order for the band to have the privilege of engaging in their business, they need a business license. Again, it’s a standalone license for a standalone purpose. It makes no difference whether the music is licensed, the alcohol is licensed, etc.

MA

I see. I thought this was the typical BMG music license fee they charge to venues in order to have music.

 

[Music Attorney]

I see. I thought this was the typical BMG music license fee they charge to venues in order to have music.

I think you mean BMI and not BMG.

Also, BMI is just one of the licenses/permissions that's required to perform live music. Depending on the musical compositions being performed, the venue may need a license from performing rights organizations like ASCAP and SESAC, as well as licenses from music publishers.

 

[Downunderwonder]

What happens if every musician in the country files the paperwork, in case they get a gig there, but doesn't pay?

 

[Deltatim]

Obviously, the City has missed the "Law of unintended consequences". If you tax out the nite life of the city, the real loss in city revenue could be huge. A point that needs to be brought to the officiating bureaucrats.

 

[Gluvhand]

Obviously, the City has missed the "Law of unintended consequences". If you tax out the nite life of the city, the real loss in city revenue could be huge. A point that needs to be brought to the officiating bureaucrats.

A huge part of the Myrtle Beach night life is bands in theater style shows, revivals,tributes. I'm going to assume that those musicians are direct employees and aren't subject to the fee.

 

[jeffbrown]

What really rankles me is the concept of *paying* for the "right" and "privilege" to do business somewhere. As if paying all the other taxes weren't enough....

MB should be grateful that some folks want to do business there. Sounds like they may be on the way to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I wish them all the unintended consequences they may reap. Personally, I've never been there. Perhaps I won't go.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

What really rankles me is the concept of *paying* for the "right" and "privilege" to do business somewhere. As if paying all the other taxes weren't enough....

MB should be grateful that some folks want to do business there. Sounds like they may be on the way to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I wish them all the unintended consequences they may reap. Personally, I've never been there. Perhaps I won't go.

How many of the bands that play the local bar scene in MB pay anything to the city?
Maybe MB saw a potential untapped source of revenue?

 

[jeffbrown]

How many of the bands that play the local bar scene in MB pay anything to the city?
Maybe MB saw a potential untapped source of revenue?

Perhaps. But that begs the question: what other rights or privileges do/will the ruling class decide we must pay for? The right to vote? Worship as we please/or not? Publish a newspaper (is that a "taxable business"?) or blog/vlog? I see a slippery slope here. If MB has problems paying its bills, that's another can of worms. Pensions are going to bankrupt a lot of municipalities because of politicians kicking the can down the road and not dealing with realistic budgets and priorities in the moment. I have NO idea if that's the case in MB.... Municipalities are always looking to increase revenue, of course. I just have a problem with the wording of this effort, is all.

Will MB solve its economic problems solely on the backs of musicians? Not bloody likely. Will MB deal with budget problems responsibly? Not unless the pols are held to account, or voted out in favor of some who will. You get what you pay for. See what I did there?

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Perhaps. But that begs the question: what other rights or privileges do/will the ruling class decide we must pay for? The right to vote? Worship as we please/or not? Publish a newspaper (is that a "taxable business"?) or blog/vlog? I see a slippery slope here. If MB has problems paying its bills, that's another can of worms. Pensions are going to bankrupt a lot of municipalities because of politicians kicking the can down the road and not dealing with realistic budgets and priorities in the moment. I have NO idea if that's the case in MB.... Municipalities are always looking to increase revenue, of course. I just have a problem with the wording of this effort, is all.

Will MB solve its economic problems solely on the backs of musicians? Not bloody likely. Will MB deal with budget problems responsibly? Not unless the pols are held to account, or voted out in favor of some who will. You get what you pay for. See what I did there?

Those other examples for the most part are not within taxing reach or control of local municipalities.
They can not mess with our right to vote, worship, publish a newspaper, though that is probably a taxable business.
They cannot control things on the Internet - blog/vlog. All of those things are federal jurisdiction and some have constitutional protection.

I don't agree with them doing this particular thing. It not only is a fee based slippery slope, but they could very well also slip into unintended consequences, such as lost revenue from bars that have fewer customers because there is no band.

It might be hard to initiate a new tax, actually it will be called a fee, so they can say they haven't created any new taxes. And that speaks to your complaint about politicians. None of them want to be the guy that make his constituents cough up more money in taxes. So it gets ignored or pushed aside until the problem cannot be managed without new sources of revenue. And when that happens they go for the low hanging fruit, as it were. "Let's make kids register their bicycles and skateboards." "It's only a couple of dollars"...(this year). The musicians fee is in that category.

This is something, that if it is to be opposed by the musicians affected by MB, it will have to come from the musicians themselves perhaps via, or in concert with, (didn't really mean this as a pun) the venue owners, who will ultimately have to pay bands more to cover fees. You can be sure this is happening or will happen elsewhere, so it affects musicians everywhere. If MB is the Alamo, then it's time to rally the troops on a larger scale and prepare for battle.
If you are making this difficult for the local burgs to get started then perhaps they will look elsewhere for the easy pickins'.

 

[Music Attorney]

Personally, I’m just baffled that a thread with sexting, forbidden fruit, moral high ground, soul mates, and band dynamics gets 4 times as many views and replies as does my scintillating legal analysis of a city ordinance about taxes in a small beach town affecting a relatively small number of musicians.

SMH.

 

[Meghans Dad]

Personally, I’m just baffled that a thread with sexting, forbidden fruit, moral high ground, soul mates, and band dynamics gets 4 times as many views and replies as does my scintillating legal analysis of a city ordinance about taxes affecting a relatively small number of musicians.

SMH.

Not baffling at all...you gave a clear and concise explanation to the situation averting the need for further exposition or debate. Most of the rest is venting of opinions and seeing as we are dealing with musicians, it is to be expected and to a degree probably healthy.
On the other hand if the text is the one I think you are referring to, you will note that it is driven primarily by 2 or 3 members who seem to take pleasure in personal insults, twisted logic and the expression or self professed intelligence.