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band micro managing

#21
18 piece jazz group, w written music. 8-10 2 hour "rehearsals" before annual 90 minute gig(s)

Joined established 4 piece in June, gigged 2-4 hour gigs withing 2 weeks.

Newest group, 3 pieces + singer, sent initial set lists around 11/21, bass+guitar practice a week later, we have a couple of 1-2 hour gigs booked and are ready for.

Also did a little 5 song side gig a few months ago, 5-1/2 hours of rehearsal total.

So I figure, 18 months, 78 weeks x 3 hours, = 200+ tunes you have ready?


I can see why your frustrated and bored. I can hardly wait to fill out our full set list so we can drop the dull filler and refine with good stuff. 1-2 rehearsal hours max per tune (spread over several). The "model" bands I've played with, run through once. If its an easily fixable flaw, we fix it, if not, it gets practiced AT HOME before the next time its rehearsed.
 
#23
musicloverpdc said:
as far as what happens when a great gig comes up? we all know that his other band is his #1 band, they are probably the #1 band in town at this point. so for now they get first billing, which sucks, cuz i think we're the better band, we'll just have to see how it goes, and deal with that if and when it becomes an issue
Click to expand...

News Flash: It's an issue... :ninja:

MM
 
#24
MysticMichael said:
News Flash: It's an issue... :ninja:

MM
Click to expand...

Yep.

If you are all truly "pro-level" players, then three months is more than sufficient to learn 4 hours worth of material and start gigging. If you're still struggling with songs after playing them for over a year, then you might want to question the competency and skills of your members.

To the guitard, you're "the other woman" band. He likes you, he says he wants to be with you, but he's not willing to leave his current "wife" until he's sure you're going to work. Honestly, I wouldn't believe much of what he says, and I'd take over the booking responsibilities from him immediately.

There's no such thing as a perfect band. You can rehearse until the cows come home, but there will still be occasional screw ups and bad nights. You can't prep for everything. Sometimes, you just have to get out and play.
 
#26
You're right, you need the motivation of an upcoming gig to get fired up. Who wants to practice endlessly with no gig in sight? I would not have been able to last as long as you have.

In addition, don't you guys understand that no show is fully polished in the basement? You must play out to really refine your show and reach full tightness! Why doesn't he understand this? At his level of experience, I would assume he DOES understand this, and I would therefore be suspicious of his motives. I agree with the mistress/wife analogy; he says he loves you, but he's holding you off in favor of his wife. Most mistresses eventually find out that he will never leave his wife...
 
#27
"I'm bored out of my mind and need to start playing out. If we don't start booking dates, and soon, I have to bail. This isn't an ultimatum, but this band as it stands now is not what I want to be doing, nor is it what we agreed it would be when we started it."
 
#29
all great thoughts, not sure i understand what you're saying jeff5311, we know how it works, get together come up with a direction and game plan, introduce songs, people go home learn their parts, come to practice prepared and put the songs together, move on to the next songs, put the show together get out and gig. am i missing something here?

anyways i've listened to what you've had to say , and again thankyou for the reply's, i have already had a talk with him, went like this (roughly sumerising) as a valued member of this band who has given 110% for the last year and a half, i need a light at the end of the tunnel, i need a show on the books , something to work towards, his reply was he didn't feel we were quite ready, his reputation is on the line. i replied while i respect you and your reputation, i disagree, i have been in this game every bit as long as you and i know when a band is ready, and we are. you need to stop nit picking over these songs. we're not striving for perfection, we're striving to put on a killer show, regardless of mistakes.

i basically went on to say, if you value my membership in this band, (we both share the singing and front man duties as well as we're co-founders of the band) i'm telling you what i need to happen to maintain my motivation and continue with this band. not an ultimatum, i'm just telling you where i stand....

he replied he hears me loud and clear, and is greatful to me for all the hard work and dedication i've put in over the last year and a half, so he thinks it's time to have a band meeting and see what we can do to light that fire again and complete the show, and get to the stage. so we'll see how it goes in the next couple weeks.... keeping my fingers crossed.
 
#30
as far as the other band, they know he's involved in this other project, they were against it in the beginning, he told them i'm doing it, if you have a problem you can replace me, they eventually cooled down, now it is not a problem... we all know each other and have jammed together... there has even been talk about sharing a bill somewhere down the road... so thanks for the concerns but that's not an issue......
 
#32
Sry. Didn't mean to come off as rude. I'm having to type on my iPhone so my responses can come across the wrong way.

You have to have gigs to keep the band as a going concern. If u r counting on 1 person for booking, just because u think they r the only one who has the appropriate contacts, and yet they r not booking the band, the band will not continue.

If u r truly pros, then u must understand this.
 
#33
musicloverpdc said:
could be for sure down the road, we'll have to see when we cross that bridge...
Click to expand...

Part of the problem, as I see it, is that you're still in denial. I agree with you that it's now absolutely essential to book that first gig - ASAP. It creates a sense of urgency that will focus everybody's attentions like nothing else. It will restore your sense of collective momentum. Not to mention generate excitement and enthusiasm!

But even after you laid out your non-ultimatum ultimatum to Mr. Guitarist, was his response to agree to start gigging? No. He wants to talk about it instead. Again. :rolleyes:

Shouldn't his response be telling you something? :eyebrow:

Hate to say it, but this is shaping up to be just like 90% of all threads in the "Band Management" forum: The OP can have the uncomfortable truth of his situation staring him in the face from all directions. But that doesn't mean he'll acknowledge it and accept it - no matter how many TalkBass members try to explain it to him - until he's ready to deal with it.

Good luck... :hmm:

MM
 
#34
MysticMichael said:
But even after you laid out your non-ultimatum ultimatum to Mr. Guitarist, was his response to agree to start gigging? No. He wants to talk about it instead. Again. :rolleyes:

Shouldn't his response be telling you something? :eyebrow:

Hate to say it, but this is shaping up to be just like 90% of all threads in the "Band Management" forum: The OP can have the uncomfortable truth of his situation staring him in the face from all directions. But that doesn't mean he'll acknowledge it and accept it - no matter how many TalkBass members try to explain it to him - until he's ready to deal with it.
Click to expand...

+1

If a band isn't gig ready after a year and a half, they're either never going to be ready...or one or more members is not interested in gigging. It sounds to me like you guys have different priorities. I quit my last band of 6 years for the same reason...
 
#35
musicloverpdc said:
...we both share the singing and front man duties as well as we're co-founders of the band...
Click to expand...

Seems to me that you should found your own band.

As far as your partner's "nitpicking" the tunes, IMO, that's his method for being sure your band is never ready to gig.

IME, when someone who is reasonably intelligent, time and time again can't articulate a good reason not to do (or do) something or comes up with lame reasons that don't seem to make sense, many times it's because they have an agenda that they won't share with others.

They just keep bs'ing along, throwing whatever non-sense they come up with against the wall for as long as possible and as long as something sticks, they get their way and "screw" everybody else.

IMO, he doesn't want to gig with your group since he's already gigging with the other group. Possibly, since there was a big dust-up when the other band found out about your band, he told them (to get them off his back) that your band is just a "garage" band and won't gig so no conflicts will be created with the other band.

I'm just sayin'...been there, done that.

Good luck.

PS. 1.5 years waiting to do a gig is just not right...:atoz: IMO, it's time to move on, especially when you can front your own band.
 
#36
I'm finding a few bands using "open mic" nights to run a set.


I also figure it takes one month of practices to develop a set from scratch. Max 1 hour of rehearsal per tune before a gig. So 12 tunes for a set, 12 hours of rehearsal.... unless its Yes or Rush material, etc.

There are single set gigs out there.
 
#37
There's nothing like being on stage to get you to reach deeper and make it work. I'm in a band that has been together for 33 years in one form or another, and we still have that "oh crap!" moment when we play a song for the first time in front of people. It's the gigs that put the final polish on the music. I say get the band booked, and get ready for it. A full band meeting is part of that. Get it all out on the table, and decide what the band as a whole, and each member, is going to do.

Excessive obsession with perfection will not make much difference to an audience that is largely musically illiterate. Most people know only two things about any given type of music: "I like it", or "I don't like it". They don't really care if the guitar parts are note for note. They will notice vocal mistakes quicker than anything else. If it rocks, and they can dance to it, that's 99% of the battle right there. In my experience, it's the guitards that get so obsessed with perfection that they succumb to the paralysis of analysis. It's rock and roll! It's meant to be raw, raucous, in your face, and exciting! Guitards standing there contemplating their navels while executing perfect licks is none of the above.

Link Removed
 
#39
musicloverpdc said:
...his attitude is let's really take our time and be tedious with these songs, and then only when they're all perfect , we'll then take it to the stage.
Click to expand...

A thought came to mind today: Is his other, gigging band perfect? Since you have your songs "nailed", then what's the problem?

How long was it before the other band started gigging? If they were a gigging band before he joined, did he cancel all the gigs so the group could get everything perfect (in his opinion) and then start gigging again?

Seems to me the guy just doesn't want to gig with your band. Like you said, sharing the stage with the other band to start out with would be great. But, noooooooooooooo....he won't do that. And you already spoke to him about gigging and what happened? Nothingggggggggg.....!!!!

Obviously, no action or response is his answer. I say call him on it. Let the chips fall where they may.
 

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