Bartolini Dual Coil Re-wiring...Worth the Effort?!?

[Zooberwerx]

This thread dovetails an earlier "replacement" discussion re: Bartolini BD5C soapbars. They're not terribly exciting but I find the options (spec'ly Delano drop-ins) to be offsetting in terms of expense ($300 +). I took another look at the install sheet and there appears to be any number of wiring configurations which would (hopefully) provide some level of embellishment. The most interesting is the last diagram on the sheet below which allows the user to tap into inner & outer single coils.

https://bartolini.net/wp-content/uploads/Docs/PickupWiring4Conductor.pdf

Has anybody pulled this off and, if so, were you satisfied with the results?

Riis

 

[markanini]

Assuming the set with typical front rear placement, you should definitely try splitting the bridge pickup for a nice blend with neck pickup.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Assuming the set with typical front rear placement, you should definitely try splitting the bridge pickup for a nice blend with neck pickup.

Well, that's certainly one of many options. Only have room for one switch so that's a limiting factor. We're on the same page as I can split the bridge pickup but I would also be splitting the neck pickup.

Riis

 

[markanini]

Well, that's certainly one of many options. Only have room for one switch so that's a limiting factor. We're on the same page as I can split the bridge pickup but I would also be splitting the neck pickup.

Riis

Only if you are set on following the pdf to a T, but in reality, you can simply exclude either pickup from the switch for exclusive splitting. There's a lot of tonal possibilities with twin dual-coils, but based on you wanting to embellish the tone and bring it closer to a Delano soapbar, splitting the bridge pickup exclusively is my first suggestion. This video will give you a rough idea of what you expect from such a setup and many others:

 

[micguy]

This thread dovetails an earlier "replacement" discussion re: Bartolini BD5C soapbars. They're not terribly exciting but I find the options (spec'ly Delano drop-ins) to be offsetting in terms of expense ($300 +). I took another look at the install sheet and there appears to be any number of wiring configurations which would (hopefully) provide some level of embellishment. The most interesting is the last diagram on the sheet below which allows the user to tap into inner & outer single coils.

https://bartolini.net/wp-content/uploads/Docs/PickupWiring4Conductor.pdf

Has anybody pulled this off and, if so, were you satisfied with the results?

Riis

I've done inner/outer wiring with Barts and other pickups. It does sound a bit different, but not all that different - on a gig, it tends to not be a useful enough difference to bother changing modes.

A lot of people make guitars and basses with all the series/parallel/in phase/out of phase combinations that they can get out of however many coils they have on their pickups. As an experiment, that's a cool thing to do, and it seems like it'd be a good thing to have, but....for a gigging bass you need instant access to 2, maybe 3 good sounds - the other possible combinations just get in the way of getting to the good ones. The more "less than stellar" sounds you have on a bass, the harder it is to find a good one.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Only if you are set on following the pdf to a T, but in reality, you can simply exclude either pickup from the switch for exclusive splitting. There's a lot of tonal possibilities with twin dual-coils, but based on you wanting to embellish the tone and bring it closer to a Delano soapbar, splitting the bridge pickup exclusively is my first suggestion. This video will give you a rough idea of what you expect from such a setup and many others:

As you've described, the majority of the suggested options are focused on individual pickups with emphasis on the bridge pickup...for example: single / series / parallel. I did have a Frog w/ Delanos with this exact set-up.

As it stands, the Barts are wired in a garden variety series hum-cancelling which is slightly muddy and ill-defined to my ears. Another route would be to dismiss the added switch and re-wire both pickups in parallel hum-cancelling.

Riis

 

[Zooberwerx]

I've done inner/outer wiring with Barts and other pickups. It does sound a bit different, but not all that different - on a gig, it tends to not be a useful enough difference to bother changing modes.

A lot of people make guitars and basses with all the series/parallel/in phase/out of phase combinations that they can get out of however many coils they have on their pickups. As an experiment, that's a cool thing to do, and it seems like it'd be a good thing to have, but....for a gigging bass you need instant access to 2, maybe 3 good sounds - the other possible combinations just get in the way of getting to the good ones. The more "less than stellar" sounds you have on a bass, the harder it is to find a good one.

Honestly, I'd be happy with one...which is pretty much what I have now...coupled with the existing blend and 3-band onboard EQ.

Riis

 

[ctmullins]

Honestly, I'd be happy with one...which is pretty much what I have now...coupled with the existing blend and 3-band onboard EQ.

Riis

Oh - well if you have a three-band onboard, I would definitely re-wire the pickups to parallel.

It might also be worth trying combinations of one coil from each pickup.

You could also switch in/out an inline capacitor for the bridge pickup, a la Rickenbacker.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Oh - well if you have a three-band onboard, I would definitely re-wire the pickups to parallel.

It might also be worth trying combinations of one coil from each pickup.

You could also switch in/out an inline capacitor for the bridge pickup, a la Rickenbacker.

I mentioned that earlier but @micguy pretty much stated it was of limited usefulness. The "parallel" mod may be the most practical as it is easily reversible and requires no addt'l switches / drilling. I'll be handing the project off to TBer Walter...I'm no good with the finer work nowadays...so there'll be no experimentation.

Riis

 

[markanini]

As you've described, the majority of the suggested options are focused on individual pickups with emphasis on the bridge pickup...for example: single / series / parallel. I did have a Frog w/ Delanos with this exact set-up.

As it stands, the Barts are wired in a garden variety series hum-cancelling which is slightly muddy and ill-defined to my ears. Another route would be to dismiss the added switch and re-wire both pickups in parallel hum-cancelling.

Riis

Yeah, both options should be helpful, even a combination of paralell neck/split bridge is worth trying. Barts are notorious for a smooth voicing that doesn't favor definition, still they will respond to wiring tricks like any pickup. If parallel+split doesn't have enough definition you could try adding a 0.01µF capacitor in series with the bridge pickup, sacrificing some hum cancelling performance.

If you are low on space for switches you can simply make the wiring changes permanent, or swap existing pots for a push-pull if you really need to go back to the stock tone.

 

[Malak the Mad]

Dunno if this applies here, but I had a Fender Dimension Projekt built around a single, Bartolini pickups. The main difference was it was a Classic Bass four-stringer, not an Original Bass model. I chose the Classic because the demos sounded both punchier and had better definition.

When I had it wired up, it was set to switch between series and parallel. If I had been more knowledgeable and experimental, I would've gone with a series/single-coil configuration, instead. The parallel mode was nice, but the Classic in series mode was much more interesting to my ears.

As for which coil I would isolate, I would have to try out both, then wire it up accordingly. I did the same with a Delano humbucker in the bridge position and, to be honest, the difference was so minor I went with a simple series/rear-coil switch config.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Dunno if this applies here, but I had a Fender Dimension Projekt built around a single, Bartolini pickups. The main difference was it was a Classic Bass four-stringer, not an Original Bass model. I chose the Classic because the demos sounded both punchier and had better definition.

When I had it wired up, it was set to switch between series and parallel. If I had been more knowledgeable and experimental, I would've gone with a series/single-coil configuration, instead. The parallel mode was nice, but the Classic in series mode was much more interesting to my ears.

As for which coil I would isolate, I would have to try out both, then wire it up accordingly. I did the same with a Delano humbucker in the bridge position and, to be honest, the difference was so minor I went with a simple series/rear-coil switch config.

Took the instrument-in-question to my buddy's today. Required a lot of finagling on both the bass and amp to rein things in but I got close. I sent a PM to one of the pros who's in both the "Repair" and "Pickup" forums. I'm assuming he's tackled a gazillion of these things and can provide some guidance. It'll end-up on his work bench, anyway, and I'll post a follow-up.

Riis

 

[eddododo]

I've done inner/outer wiring with Barts and other pickups. It does sound a bit different, but not all that different - on a gig, it tends to not be a useful enough difference to bother changing modes.

A lot of people make guitars and basses with all the series/parallel/in phase/out of phase combinations that they can get out of however many coils they have on their pickups. As an experiment, that's a cool thing to do, and it seems like it'd be a good thing to have, but....for a gigging bass you need instant access to 2, maybe 3 good sounds - the other possible combinations just get in the way of getting to the good ones. The more "less than stellar" sounds you have on a bass, the harder it is to find a good one.

Yep- I’ve done a million variations, and it’s useful as a modder to explore them and test ideas, but in reality you’ll just find one you like and not use the other 49373 configurations

 

[DJmtd]

We use a switch per pickup to do series/split/parallel on our Kingston Supers (and USA Supers for that matter.) You can also wire them the way you describe, Inners/Series/Outers of course. In our experiments, inner vs outer was not as big of a tonal difference as series vs parallel.

I'm willing to bet you could use a 4pdt and could smush both diagrams together on page 7 of that bartolini link to achieve that.

Taiway 4PDT On On On Switch - Solder Lug - Long Shaft

Modify your guitar with top-quality switches from a manufacturer you trust. Our Taiway 4PDT On-On-On toggle switch is perfect for single-coil switching projects.

lovemyswitches.com

But doing it with a regular DPDT and experimenting with the inners and outers is totally valid.

I'm kind of hyped on parallel wiring after watching this the other day:

 

[Zooberwerx]

We use a switch per pickup to do series/split/parallel on our Kingston Supers (and USA Supers for that matter.) You can also wire them the way you describe, Inners/Series/Outers of course. In our experiments, inner vs outer was not as big of a tonal difference as series vs parallel.

I'm willing to bet you could use a 4pdt and could smush both diagrams together on page 7 of that bartolini link to achieve that.

Taiway 4PDT On On On Switch - Solder Lug - Long Shaft

Modify your guitar with top-quality switches from a manufacturer you trust. Our Taiway 4PDT On-On-On toggle switch is perfect for single-coil switching projects.

lovemyswitches.com

But doing it with a regular DPDT and experimenting with the inners and outers is totally valid.

I'm kind of hyped on parallel wiring after watching this the other day:

We're going with parallel on both Bart soapbars...no addt'l holes, no switches, and easily reversible if it truly blows. Also s/o the zero fret with some taller fret wire (+ 0.010").

Riis

 

[Zooberwerx]

We use a switch per pickup to do series/split/parallel on our Kingston Supers (and USA Supers for that matter.) You can also wire them the way you describe, Inners/Series/Outers of course. In our experiments, inner vs outer was not as big of a tonal difference as series vs parallel.

I'm willing to bet you could use a 4pdt and could smush both diagrams together on page 7 of that bartolini link to achieve that.

Taiway 4PDT On On On Switch - Solder Lug - Long Shaft

Modify your guitar with top-quality switches from a manufacturer you trust. Our Taiway 4PDT On-On-On toggle switch is perfect for single-coil switching projects.

lovemyswitches.com

But doing it with a regular DPDT and experimenting with the inners and outers is totally valid.

I'm kind of hyped on parallel wiring after watching this the other day:

Also forgot to mention: thanks for the YT link...it speaks volumes! I can see myself removing the existing blend and replacing with a rotary switch to take advantage of the various coil-split configurations & voicings.

Riis

 

[Zooberwerx]

Follow-up: Each of the Barts was re-wired into parallel but, otherwise, left alone. The output is slightly diminished but the character is much cleaner / articulate across the spectrum. Best part is that it's easily reversible.

Riis

 

[Turnaround]

I've done inner/outer wiring with Barts and other pickups. It does sound a bit different, but not all that different - on a gig, it tends to not be a useful enough difference to bother changing modes.

That was my experience too. Using a two position switch I had one position engage both coils on both pickups. In the other position it was the outer coils only of the two pickups. The difference was slight - not worth the effort IMO.

 

[Zooberwerx]

That was my experience too. Using a two position switch I had one position engage both coils on both pickups. In the other position it was the outer coils only of the two pickups. The difference was slight - not worth the effort IMO.

That was my understanding...but wait, it gets better...

I also asked Walter to check and swap-out the zero fret. Turns out it was actually lower than the balance of the fingerboard. Also the frets...and I mean all of them...were not fully seated and "spongy" under fingertip pressure. Walter clamped some leveling bars and re-glued the lot. Surprisingly, it required little if any leveling.

Riis

 

[Turnaround]

That was my understanding...but wait, it gets better...

I also asked Walter to check and swap-out the zero fret. Turns out it was actually lower than the balance of the fingerboard. Also the frets...and I mean all of them...were not fully seated and "spongy" under fingertip pressure. Walter clamped some leveling bars and re-glued the lot. Surprisingly, it required little if any leveling.

Riis

An interesting approach to rewiring your pickups!