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Bass Amps with Character?
- Thread starter naufal6161
- Start date
I'm just saying that the natural character of an amp is not as big an influence on the sound as some other parts of the equation...
Your fingers, the bass, strings etc all IMO play a bigger part
Your fingers, the bass, strings etc all IMO play a bigger part
the Arsonaut said:
Hey did you really say the difference between Larry Graham, John Paul Jones and Jaco was their engineer and their recording console?
Sound City and Hiwatt were not Marshall pretenders but distinct developments on a similar theme. They sound quite different from each other. You sight the Marshall Major when it is a later development than the Plexi 100 watt Bass & Lead models that were already in use.
All that aside I think I get what you are saying.
Point by point, like my wiring...
the Peavey tone circuit on those amps, is not exactly like a f/v/m stack, I simplified a comparison. I will stand behind Scooped Mid vs fender's narrow mid band. I'm not saying Peavey invented any damned thing except cheap and heavy...I'm only saying that it was a prominent feature of that amp series.
As for making comparisons between players and their recorded tone. I think you're saying I said that. I said, the real tonal difference, at the end of the day, lay with the studio, when it came to recording them. I'm not saying an engineer made their tone, only that he captured it in a "right" way.
Imagine some fella who thought "gosh, we've got to roll these highs off of this 'popping' bass"...the end result might have been different, we'll never know.
It's the medium we're working with, since Jaco's not really putting out new stuff to compare to...
I think this is now the 3rd time I am making a point that, their amp also defines their tone. Significantly.
For them, alone...I will make no attempt to state that any amp affected their style, their technique, their approach.
But, it probably did...let's be honest.
A lot of people sit down, plug in, and think "this is what it is"
and some people come along and say "nope, not good enough..give me two of these, and make them bigger" I like to call those people, John Entwistle.
Some fella says, "drummer was too loud, got a loud amp. Now I sound like mud...loud mud. Gotta cut through the mix" with a slap'n'pop later...
Bootsy Collins was building a PA for bass in the 70s because amp tone didn't matter to him?
Being a 'pretender to the throne' is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it's another way of saying
"distinct developments on a similar theme". And you're right, I mention the marshall major, in the same statement
I make about lemmy and his super bass...his marshall superbass.
We tweak amps in search of tone. More tone.
If you've squeezed everything out of your bass, from attack, to string, to pickup, hell,
to signal chain, all the way...then you get to your amp and you say...
"hmm, what do you have that's transparent, I'm tired"
If that's what I'm being told AND you believe that...it's an elephant in a very small room.
Oh, and Cabs make tone, too. Oops...
and owning an amp that doesn't work...that makes you the character.
the Peavey tone circuit on those amps, is not exactly like a f/v/m stack, I simplified a comparison. I will stand behind Scooped Mid vs fender's narrow mid band. I'm not saying Peavey invented any damned thing except cheap and heavy...I'm only saying that it was a prominent feature of that amp series.
As for making comparisons between players and their recorded tone. I think you're saying I said that. I said, the real tonal difference, at the end of the day, lay with the studio, when it came to recording them. I'm not saying an engineer made their tone, only that he captured it in a "right" way.
Imagine some fella who thought "gosh, we've got to roll these highs off of this 'popping' bass"...the end result might have been different, we'll never know.
It's the medium we're working with, since Jaco's not really putting out new stuff to compare to...
I think this is now the 3rd time I am making a point that, their amp also defines their tone. Significantly.
For them, alone...I will make no attempt to state that any amp affected their style, their technique, their approach.
But, it probably did...let's be honest.
A lot of people sit down, plug in, and think "this is what it is"
and some people come along and say "nope, not good enough..give me two of these, and make them bigger" I like to call those people, John Entwistle.
Some fella says, "drummer was too loud, got a loud amp. Now I sound like mud...loud mud. Gotta cut through the mix" with a slap'n'pop later...
Bootsy Collins was building a PA for bass in the 70s because amp tone didn't matter to him?
Being a 'pretender to the throne' is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it's another way of saying
"distinct developments on a similar theme". And you're right, I mention the marshall major, in the same statement
I make about lemmy and his super bass...his marshall superbass.
We tweak amps in search of tone. More tone.
If you've squeezed everything out of your bass, from attack, to string, to pickup, hell,
to signal chain, all the way...then you get to your amp and you say...
"hmm, what do you have that's transparent, I'm tired"
If that's what I'm being told AND you believe that...it's an elephant in a very small room.
Oh, and Cabs make tone, too. Oops...
and owning an amp that doesn't work...that makes you the character.
Every amp and speaker colors the tone of the instrument, if you call that character, they all have their own.
As has been pointed out, the player, way more than anything else, is the character of the sound.
Answer is...... Amps (and Cabinets) all have their own character. If they didn't, why would there be so many brands?
As has been pointed out, the player, way more than anything else, is the character of the sound.
Answer is...... Amps (and Cabinets) all have their own character. If they didn't, why would there be so many brands?
We may have a disconnect in terms here.
There are factors that let us tell one player from another; note choice, attack, note length, rhythmic feel -- those aspects of tone are definitely 100% in the hands (and brain).
But the actual SOUND that we hear? The translation of electrical impulses into air movement that we perceive?
I think the instrument, strings, effects, and amp/cab are a huge aspect of that.
Further, I think that, assuming a basic level of adequacy, the amp has MORE impact than the bass. If I plug a cheap bass into the best bass amp in the store, I get a pretty big sound. If I then plug the nicest bass into the cheapest amp -- the sound is less inspiring....with the same hands and brain involved both times.
The key is to figure out which of these tools will go along with and contribute to the sound your hands and brain are trying to make, rather than holding you back.
If you want a clean, clear, snappy sound and someone offers you a flatwound-equipped Gibson EB-0 and an Ampeg B15, you will be fighting your gear to get your sound.
There are factors that let us tell one player from another; note choice, attack, note length, rhythmic feel -- those aspects of tone are definitely 100% in the hands (and brain).
But the actual SOUND that we hear? The translation of electrical impulses into air movement that we perceive?
I think the instrument, strings, effects, and amp/cab are a huge aspect of that.
Further, I think that, assuming a basic level of adequacy, the amp has MORE impact than the bass. If I plug a cheap bass into the best bass amp in the store, I get a pretty big sound. If I then plug the nicest bass into the cheapest amp -- the sound is less inspiring....with the same hands and brain involved both times.
The key is to figure out which of these tools will go along with and contribute to the sound your hands and brain are trying to make, rather than holding you back.
If you want a clean, clear, snappy sound and someone offers you a flatwound-equipped Gibson EB-0 and an Ampeg B15, you will be fighting your gear to get your sound.
+1
I think as far as tone goes (outside of what your hands do) this is the order of importance.
Cabinet - 51%
Amp - 40%
bass & strings - 9%
As you go further down the signal chain things become more important. Any bottle neck will limit the signal you are sending. Each step in the chain should offer you more, never less, tone.
Any p-bass copy through an Ampeg SVT-CL and an 810e is going to a sound that a lot of guys will dig.
Play the most expensive, highest quality, custom shop p-bass through a bearinger kick back combo? its going to sound like crap.
One of the problems with using a general term like "character" is many people may not like a particular character. Probably one of the amps that I have heard with the most "character" is Sunn Coliseum 300. I have read people bashing them on here, but I think they sound awesome in the right situation. Now that situation is absolutely NOT if you want a true representation of your bass's tone. On the other hand, if you want a nasty mid range that will cut through heavily detuned guitars then the Sunn is magic.
Recordings don't count for much, rarely is an amp given credit on a recording, and rarely were they used on recordings. If they were then it has a lot to do with mics, placement, channel strip, eq on the recording console, and the medium used. And of course the producer once all the musicians aired out their feelings.
Given a double blind test, with some actual tweaking of the EQ and gains, I doubt many would be able to hear one amp as characteristically unique over another. In fact, it's common that 20% variance in part tolerances require you to tweak the knobs to level the playing field before blind testing.
Cabinets on the other hand, different story. Voice of the Theater were fairly hi-fi but they didn't fit in station wagons. Flatter construction multi-driver cabs did fit but were far from hi-fi, and meant to squeeze out every watt. Their peaky response, and combing are "Familiar" sounding, but not necessarily a good characteristic.
Anything that can be heard can be modeled so a good way to try out the combinations is with demo's of modeling software. If you have a decent PC and a good audio interface, not expensive, then some hifi headphones or monitors. Try the model, try the real thing then see if you hear a difference. In fact this is why Orange participates in modeling. They know if you try the model, you might just buy the real thing if you want a hardware solution.
Given a double blind test, with some actual tweaking of the EQ and gains, I doubt many would be able to hear one amp as characteristically unique over another. In fact, it's common that 20% variance in part tolerances require you to tweak the knobs to level the playing field before blind testing.
Cabinets on the other hand, different story. Voice of the Theater were fairly hi-fi but they didn't fit in station wagons. Flatter construction multi-driver cabs did fit but were far from hi-fi, and meant to squeeze out every watt. Their peaky response, and combing are "Familiar" sounding, but not necessarily a good characteristic.
Anything that can be heard can be modeled so a good way to try out the combinations is with demo's of modeling software. If you have a decent PC and a good audio interface, not expensive, then some hifi headphones or monitors. Try the model, try the real thing then see if you hear a difference. In fact this is why Orange participates in modeling. They know if you try the model, you might just buy the real thing if you want a hardware solution.
All I can go by is my experience and an admission that some of my memories of past rigs are exactly that. Too far in the past to recall with any precision.
I don't know what the exact definition of "character" is to the OP but if I were defining it in terms of my own experience two brands that to me have a distinguishable but very different sound to them are Ampeg and GK.
A PBass or a JBass as I typically play will have one sound through an Ampeg SVT 8/10" rig and a completely different sound with a GK head through a 4/10" or 2/12" rig. To me they're very different but both work for me and my style of playing.
Different basses and a totally different approach who knows? The instrument, the amp and the player as a unit are what makes the sound. I don't believe you can separate that factor from the process of defining "character".
I don't know what the exact definition of "character" is to the OP but if I were defining it in terms of my own experience two brands that to me have a distinguishable but very different sound to them are Ampeg and GK.
A PBass or a JBass as I typically play will have one sound through an Ampeg SVT 8/10" rig and a completely different sound with a GK head through a 4/10" or 2/12" rig. To me they're very different but both work for me and my style of playing.
Different basses and a totally different approach who knows? The instrument, the amp and the player as a unit are what makes the sound. I don't believe you can separate that factor from the process of defining "character".
59 Bassman was a bass amp.
Times have changed. Praise Steve Rabe and the boys at ACC. And Jeese Oliver and the boys at Ampeg.
Loud is cool.
Times have changed. Praise Steve Rabe and the boys at ACC. And Jeese Oliver and the boys at Ampeg.
Loud is cool.
I like what Reggie Hamilton once said on here..."Jaco and Larry Graham played nearly identical rigs, so it ain't the shoes."
Mesa Boogie M series can be recognized instantly.
Same goes for any Trace Elliot, Gallien 800RB, Ampeg SVT, SansAmp, there is no shortage of amps with personnality.
Same goes for any Trace Elliot, Gallien 800RB, Ampeg SVT, SansAmp, there is no shortage of amps with personnality.
