Double Bass Bass Deadening

[morticious.ind]

Hello world,
I play a bass.. with a kk rockabilly special pickup.


I have heaps of problems with feedback and my bass is covered in gaffa tape, ( used to be function now it looks good too)

I ask bass shops and they tell me they are not in the business of making double basses quieter.

It is the A and the E string that take off and this is a major problem as I am startiung to play larger venues at higher volumes and I cannot get the volume I need or want.

If you have comments on this issue or have delt with it I would like to hear from you.

Cheers
Jarran Zen

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

The (monitor)amp placement and its frequency distribution (ie. tone) are the main things I look at when battling with feedback. Near field monitoring or IEM's would eliminate the problem almost completely.

You can also experiment on changing the resonant frequency of either the top or the back, which ever starts the feedback.

These have worked for me as a player as well as a sound engineer.

Regards
Sam

 

[zeytoun]

hi-pass filter and phase reversal should buy you some extra volume, no matter your setup

 

[moles]

I've been using the K&K RAB+ pickup for close to three years now on my slapper. One thing I noticed (after awhile) about it: the fingerboard pickup can be a real feedback magnet. It's a little counter-intuitive, since it's function is not really to pick up bass frequencies.

What you need to look out for, is how the lead to the pickup is fastened. Get some foam rubber and really attach the wire well to the fingerboard, with the foam in between the wire and the board. I've got mine fastened down in three spots. Admittedly, my fingerboard is a little on the thin side, and very resonant as a result - so maybe I've had more problems with this than normal - but I've read other posts here and there that tell me it's still a fairly common problem.

Fixing that will solve about half your problems, I'd be willing to bet. UncleToad wrote a good post about fighting feedback, that has been quoted a million times here - do a search for it. In short, the tools are the high-pass filter and phase reversal as stated above, a notch filter or good parametric/graphic eq, keeping stage volume as low as possible, amp placement, where *you* stand on stage, and tell the sound guy (if you're in a club with a loud FOH system) to get all the low end out of your monitor. That last one is key. You can roll off all the low end in the world from your sound, but if your bass is being blasted with boomy vocals from the monitor, it can still send you into feedback.

 

[smoothcriminal]

I had this problem myself and i found i was able to achieve excellent results by taping stray cats to the back of my bass. I also experimented with rabbits but i found that they are not dense enough. That being said, i was able to achieve an excellent sound quality with a ratio of about 1 rabbit to every 3-4 cats (depending on the size of the cats).

Hope this helps. Let me know how you go.

 

[emilio g]

I've never attached animals to my bass, but I do velcro two 1lb ankle weights and a practice mute to my bridge when I practice late at night. The practice mute dampens the high and midrange tones and the ankle weights mute the lows really well (which tend to be what wake people up). Doesn't have to be ankle weights, anything with a little mass to it.

I've have played much rockabilly, slap, or high volume stuff on double bass (I'm mostly a classical and jazz player) but its easy enough to try. I would start with lighter weight and move up gradually, especially if you are using very light strings.

You can see a pictures Invalid Link Removed.

 

[Marton]

I had a conversation with my luthier, and he had installed a second soundpost in a bass to make it quieter. It was not his idea, of course, but the guy really want it, so he didn't see any problem doing it. Its was a local rockabilly player, but I don't know who is he, so I can't give you his contact info or such, but maybe you can try to make your own research on the internet about the subject.

 

[PaulKing]

All good suggestions.
For live and loud, I have dense foam inserts that block the f-holes. Like these, but I made my own from a foam swimming float. Link Removed
Phase reverse cuts out most other feedback, along with very careful EQ. Just learn to find the frequencies that cause trouble and knock them back.
Fishman PRO EQ really does help.
As well as isolating the f/b pick-up wire with foam (I've done that on mine too), also check the fit of the bridge p/up.
Too loose and you're working the volume too high. Too tight and it's too boomy ... either can cause feedback.
The pick/p should just move with a little firm pressure, neither slipping with ease or being rammed in really tight.

The extra soundpost works by deadening the bass response. I know people who have done it, seems to work, though ruins the acoustic sound. It goes just under the E foot of the bridge, inside the bass bar I think....

 

[Beowulf Kingsle]

Could someone please explain what's involved in the phase reverse thing? How exactly does one do that, and what extra equipment is required?

 

[SAlcott]

How about some of that spray insulation that expands to fill all gaps? Go slow, though-you don't want to explode the bass. Experiment with some other hollow objects first to get an idea of rate of expansion. Then, just make sure your soundpost is in good and tight and fill'er up. You'll have an instrument that's visually acoustic, but produces little or no acoustic sound-perfect for high-volume applications.

 

[Les Fret]

For live and loud, I have dense foam inserts that block the f-holes. Like these, but I made my own from a foam swimming float. Link Removed

looks really good!!
how do prevent them from falling in the bass/guitar?
and what foam is it exactly?

 

[moles]

Could someone please explain what's involved in the phase reverse thing? How exactly does one do that, and what extra equipment is required?

It's simply a function on some amps/preamps. It reverses the polarity of the electrical signal, which can help with feedback in the right circumstances.

If you're using a mic, you can always rig up a short xlr cable to act as a polarity reverse - just swap the + and - on one side of the cable. I've always wanted to try this with a 1/4" patch cable between my amp and pre - it might work, might be really noisy, or might be essentially useless.

How about some of that spray insulation that expands to fill all gaps? ....You'll have an instrument that's visually acoustic, but produces little or no acoustic sound-perfect for high-volume applications.

I think you hit the nail on the head at the end there. IME this sort of stuff is really more than necessary. At least the second soundpost and f-hole plugs (neither of which I've even needed to investigate) are reversible.

 

[Bass]

I had this problem myself and i found i was able to achieve excellent results by taping stray cats to the back of my bass. I also experimented with rabbits but i found that they are not dense enough. That being said, i was able to achieve an excellent sound quality with a ratio of about 1 rabbit to every 3-4 cats (depending on the size of the cats).

Hope this helps. Let me know how you go.

HAA, hilarious!!

Check out these links to learn how to fight feedback:

Chris Rhoades @ RABB.com

Uncle Toad

I'm with Moles, filling your bass with foam is ********.

And before adding a second soundpost you might try moving it like this (courtesy of Kevin Stewart, RABB.com):

 

[SAlcott]

"I'm with Moles, filling your bass with foam is ********."

No, the stated goal of the OP is "deadening" his bass with the goal of maximum volume with minimum feedback. To that end, one must eliminate as much acoustic sound as possible in order to provide the optimum platform for amplification. The end result will be an EUB with a large inert body, a piezo or magnetic pickup, and a pickup in the fingerboard for the percussive sounds. It's the best of all worlds; it looks like an acoustic bass, but it amplifies as cleanly and efficiently as an EUB.

 

[Johnny Atomic]

How about some of that spray insulation that expands to fill all gaps? Go slow, though-you don't want to explode the bass. Experiment with some other hollow objects first to get an idea of rate of expansion. Then, just make sure your soundpost is in good and tight and fill'er up. You'll have an instrument that's visually acoustic, but produces little or no acoustic sound-perfect for high-volume applications.

This is the dumbest idea i've ever read on here. The worst part is someone is probably dumb enough to try this after they read this thread.

 

[SAlcott]

This is the dumbest idea i've ever read on here. The worst part is someone is probably dumb enough to try this after they read this thread.

Cool. Let's have your ideas, then.

 

[moles]

I think maybe you're mis-interpreting the OP. The question was never how to deaden the bass in the absolute sense, but simply that the poster wanted to play as loud as needed. Not "maximum volume, minimum feedback" - but "less feedback prone than it is now".

The OP asked a question about deading his bass in an effort to solve that problem. Several other posters in this thread have pointed out better solutions to that problem.

I'm off to cheerily rip peoples heads off with my loud-ass, feedback proof rig that has zero expanding foam, tape over the f-holes, extra soundposts, or any of that crap.

 

[lucas vigor]

HAA, hilarious!!

Check out these links to learn how to fight feedback:

Chris Rhoades @ RABB.com

Uncle Toad

I'm with Moles, filling your bass with foam is ********.

And before adding a second soundpost you might try moving it like this (courtesy of Kevin Stewart, RABB.com):

Basically, whatever Kevin Stewart says, is what I will do. I have learned a LOT from that cat!

I switched from the KK Rockabilly to the underwood. This is something you might want to look into. They don't howl as much, yet they retain a goodly amount of click.
Ironically, a big amp seems to work really good. Once I added the 18 inch cab, I was able to get more bass but also keep the amp's overall volume down.