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Bass Mix & IEMs

#21
Unless I really know and trust the sound engineer - I run a post-eq signal from my GK MB500 to one channel of my PSM 200 (mono but 2 channels), then through to the PA. Other channel is aux feed from the FOH mixer. I eq my bass for my IEM mix - nothing so drastic that it would give the engineer an unusable signal though. I ditched the SE215 buds for Westone UM 30 Pro 3-drivers - big difference.
 
#26
I run a psm300. It also has a hiss but when I am playing live it is less audible.
Here's how I run my set up. My Psm sits in my rack and I run bass only through it in one side. I have the house send me the other instruments through the other channel. I rarely run in stereo though. I just have the other instruments brought up to where my bass signal still sits on top of everything else. I have sm425 ears and they do a better job of separating the frequencies of the instruments. But from what I hear the 315's have better low bass response.
Here is what I have learned. There are 2 ways of mixing foh, commonly I will see soundguys setting the faders and adjusting gain to boost or cut volume. This destroys your in ear mix multiple times throughout the night but sounds good out front. The other way is to set the gain initially and control the volume with the faders. This leaves the in ear mix exactly where it is for the entire night. I also find a lot of sound guys struggle to separate the bass and drums especially in the lower frequencies so the kick and lower toms compete with frets 1-5 on the bass. This will also leave your ears sounding like trash.
When I have a bad sound guy I will run stereo and completely isolate the bass on one side and when I have a good sound guy what is in my ears is supported by what is in the room and it sounds golden.
So there are some things you can control and some you can work around.
I have the body pack that also has on board low frequency boost/cut and I typically run about 2db boost there.
I also use the gain and clip indicator on the front to send as hot of a signal as possible to the ears without constant clipping. Because my bass is sending a fairly direct signal to the in ears I have to watch eq adjustments and make sure I am happy with my eq knobs before I start bringing in other instruments. It's a pretty good rule not to play with your eq throughout the night but some people still do.
 
#27
The one and only gig that I tried using them, I used an ipad to control what I wanted in my mix... from memory, the channels were as follows... bass, electronic drums (kick, toms, hi-hats, crash and snare.. all with their own separate channels) 5 separate vocals, keyboards, acoustic, violin, 3 separate guitar amps, a guitar solo channel and a direct line for the guitar.... So that is... 19 channels in my ears.
 
#28
I use the westtowne um30s. They are expensive, but they are excellent if you are a bass player. They have excellent below in response and the highs are very rounded and not piercing like that sure IEMs.

I recently had a set of custom molds made for the earpieces a company called Avery sound. Using the custom molds elevates the performance yet another notch.
 
#29
I recently had a set of custom molds made for the earpieces a company called Avery sound. Using the custom molds elevates the performance yet another notch.[/QUOTE]
Chasarms said:
I use the westtowne um30s. They are expensive, but they are excellent if you are a bass player. They have excellent below in response and the highs are very rounded and not piercing like that sure IEMs.

I recently had a set of custom molds made for the earpieces a company called Avery sound. Using the custom molds elevates the performance yet another notch.
Click to expand...

Although I have the Shure PSM 300, can I still use the Westone triple driver buds if I decide to upgrade?... Or is it recommended stay with the same brand.
 
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#30
walterw said:
sounds like you just don't like the tone of a dry passive bass direct in (i don't either).

look into some nice preamp-type pedals to create a direct tone more like a real bass amp, maybe even adding a nice compressor pedal. the sansamp is a classic for this exact job, but there are lots of others, most all of which will serve as the direct box and as a preamp to drive a stage bass amp if you want.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Any suggestions on a preamp other than the sansamp?
 
#31
s0c9 said:
SE215 are single driver buds. When I used them (for a short time) I would also lose the bass, because there's only so much you can get from a single speaker. If you read any of my IEM posts on here, you'll know that I'm a HUGE proponent of MULTI-DRIVER buds for bass use. That way the bass frequencies are kept separate from the rest of the audio spectrum.
I also recommend custom mold IEM's as the seal is better..however, that's mostly a budget issue.
Look at upgrading the buds to DUAL drivers (at a minimum, eg. Westone ) and using a DI with EQ control so you can blend the bass.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I think I will upgrade to a multi-driver buds. Does the upgrade have to be Shure as my unit is a Shure PSM300. Any suggestions. My budget is about $500-$600CAN... Maybe I can get a suitable upgrade for less??? How does the custom mold process work? Do you buy the buds, go get fitted for a custom mold and they change over the electronics???
 
#32
pshep68 said:
Thanks for the reply. I think I will upgrade to a multi-driver buds. Does the upgrade have to be Shure as my unit is a Shure PSM300. Any suggestions. My budget is about $500-$600CAN... Maybe I can get a suitable upgrade for less??? How does the custom mold process work? Do you buy the buds, go get fitted for a custom mold and they change over the electronics???
Click to expand...
I believe you can use ANY buds (with the correct 1/8" jack on the end) with your PSM300. I do not know what's available in Canada, but I'm a huge fan (and endorser) of 1964 Ears.. (see my sig to the left). That said there are plenty of other good vendors out there. eg: Ultimate Ears, JH Audio, Alclair, etc.
To get customs, you go to an audiologist and get molds made. In the US, the price varies, but is normally [usually?] around $50 USD. You send the molds to the vendor and they make the ears from those molds. Turnaround time varies with vendor, and the number of drivers, finish, etc. are your choice, and will likely affect the end price.

Keep in mind that customs are NOT cheap. If universal fit works for you, then [as another option] you might stay with them and upgrade to a good set of Westones, etc.
 
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#33
pshep68 said:
I recently had a set of custom molds made for the earpieces a company called Avery sound. Using the custom molds elevates the performance yet another notch.
Click to expand...


Although I have the Shure PSM 300, can I still use the Westone triple driver buds if I decide to upgrade?... Or is it recommended stay with the same brand.[/QUOTE]


Yes. I carry my IEMs with me for any and all gigs. I have plugged my IEMs into Shure, Sennheiser, AT. It doesn't matter. Whatever the sound guy hands me, it works. I also use them a lot "wired" with personal monitoring systems like Aviom and A&H. I keep a 10' guitar cable in my bag that I have zip tied a 3.5mm stereo extension just for that purpose.
 
#34
And before buying custom earphones, if you still haven't yet done full trouble-shooting try your IEM rig with decent quality headphones.

If your bass *still* doesn't sound right through the headphones, the root problem won't go away even after you drop the cash on audiologist molds and full cutom IEMs. OTOH, if your rig sounds right through headphones, then moving to high quality molded IEMs is a reasonable next step.
 
#36
1. You said you don't have an option to EQ your bass signal into IEM. Why? Is it not going through a mixing desk? If not, how do you get a "mix" in your IEM's?

2. All IEM systems suffer of hiss to some extent. This is because sending stuff wirelessly involves companding technology (think comparison between CD sound and low kB mp3's). The cheaper units hiss more than the really expensive ones (like PSM 1000). More money gets you less noise and artifacts.

3. Better buds make for better sound, just as custom molds make for better noise reduction. Multiple drivers make for more separation, and frequency response control.

Unfortunately, getting a good sound on any monitoring involves cash. If you want the best, prepare to spend thousands on it. This is why I'm hesitant to go in ears. I couldn't justify the money going into it.
 
#37
kalle74 said:
1. You said you don't have an option to EQ your bass signal into IEM. Why? Is it not going through a mixing desk? If not, how do you get a "mix" in your IEM's?.
Click to expand...

If you get a signal from your board you usually have little to no control over it. Yes you can vary the overall tone of your mix but not any particular instrument.

here is a better way to do it if you need that kind of control.

Link Removed

Chris
 
#40
I looked at the OP again and his question asked for help in adjusting his sound for his bass that went directly into his rolls device. OP again if you add a small mixer to your setup you can run all your signals into it and then run the out into the rolls. If you set the rolls up in stereo and used an insert cable from the mixer left and right out to the rolls in you to actually run the rolls in stereo and use the mixer to pan your different signals left and right to task.
 
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