Bass problem - Vintage Modified Squier

[digamma]

Hi everyone,
My bass player has recently bought a Vintage modified Squier. I have recorded this bass in studio in the past and always like the sound. This one sounds good too, but we are having tuning problems.

Basically, the first 4 frets, are way above their correct pitch. Specially on the lowest string (4 string bass). The worst is the first fret, and it gets progressively better, going up the neck.

It has been for 2 setups, and the luthier can't get it right. He says it might be the strings (We have tried 2 different gauges, thick and thinner, same problem).

The rest of the neck, after 4th/5th fret seems to be OK!

Is this a defect bass? Should we return it? I can't think of anything else. Is this type of quality control common with squier?

Any ideas?

Miguel

 

[Pilgrim]

If the bass has been properly set up and intonated and the frets still generate notes which are not accurate in pitch, then you should seek a refund or exchange.

BUT NOTE: I said IF it has been properly set up and intonated. I'm guessing the intonation is way off, and that's causing the problem.

 

[digamma]

I honestly think it has been well set up and intonated even though its completely off on those first 1 2 3 notes. Only because the luthier is a long time expert custom bass constructor. But who knows.. Him mentioning that the strings might not be ideal for studio sounds a little strange.

I will try the intonation myself.

Any other ideas?

 

[Webtroll]

Maybe try setting it up by ear? It will wreck your last setup but move the saddle out of position, then move it back into place using a harmonic at the 12th compared to fretted at the 12th as see if you can still hear the difference at the lower frets. Not very scientific but it might work for you.

 

[KaseOfBass]

So is open and 12th fret completely in tune? Or the harmonic at the 12 fret position on the strings and the fretted 12th correct? Like Pilgrim said, I'm also thinking the intonation is not set correctly.

Because I'm not sure of your level of expertise regarding setting intonation (no insult meant if you know all of this...I just don't know if you do...), try this site if you need help setting the intonation correctly. Or just google "bass intonation" and you'll find all sorts of helpful sites/videos. I've had my bass "setup" at the local music store by a "trained professional" and it wasn't anywhere close. So I setup my own.

http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_setup/setting_bass_intonation.html

 

[zenman]

Could be that the nut slots are not cut deep enough? This could create excessive tension when fretting the first couple of frets, causing those notes to be sharp. Just a guess.

 

[digamma]

Ok, so my bassist did some quick tests. Here is what happened:

Open string - perfectly tuned to C#
12th Fret Harmonic - also super close, almost spot on.
12th Fret actual note - about +20, +25 cent on Korg tuner
1st Fret actual note - around +40cent on korg tuner
2nd Fret actual note - around +25cent on korg tuner
3rd fret actual note - around +15cent on korg tuner.

As you can see, the first fret is almost half a note off. Quarter tone.. Unplayable..

Once we get to the 5th 6th 7th fret, its in tune.

Miguel

 

[KaseOfBass]

It's intonation then. Adjust the saddle backward (essentially make the string longer) until the 12 fret fretted note is in tune with the 12th harmonic and/or open string and you should be good to go. I'm sure it won't make a difference but what tuning are you using?

 

[joebar]

it could be a nut issue where the nut is too high. it has to be fixable becuase even the cheapest guitars can hold tune these days.

 

[donut]

It's intonation then. Adjust the saddle backward (essentially make the string longer) until the 12 fret fretted note is in tune with the 12th harmonic and/or open string and you should be good to go. I'm sure it won't make a difference but what tuning are you using?

If it was simply intonation then surely you'd start off almost in tune and get more and more out the further up the neck you go?

Definitely fix the intonation as suggested above, but I don't think will completely solve the problem. The issue could well be the nut being cut too high, or not wide enough for the string gauge you're using.

 

[KaseOfBass]

Certainly...but the intonation is no doubt off...terribly.

 

[MODELL]

Only because the luthier is a long time expert custom bass constructor.

I would think that this person would be best to figure out what's wrong with the bass. He has worked on it and is an expert. But I agree in asking why he said the strings weren't right for the studio.

 

[BDL1991]

what tuning is it in? What gauge strings is he using?

 

[digamma]

Tuning is half step down + drop (low string to c#)

Gauge, I'm not sure. The luthier said that since it is lower tuning, he would put on a string set from a 5 string set, but leaving the thinnest string out.

 

[BDL1991]

so the tuning is? C# F# B E?

 

[lbwdog]

Open string - perfectly tuned to C#
12th Fret Harmonic - also super close, almost spot on.
12th Fret actual note - about +20, +25 cent on Korg tuner

You've got to fix this before any meaningful adjustments can be made!
Move bridge saddle back to where the 12th fret note is identical to the harmonic....then take your readings.

 

[lbwdog]

so the tuning is? C# F# B E?

I think he means C# G# C# F#

 

[BDL1991]

ah would make more sense, what tuning was I saying? erm, 1 and a half steps down I think

 

[digamma]

I think he means C# G# C# F#

Correct lbwdog. C# G# C# F#. So everything is half a step down, and low string 1&half step down.

Could this have anything to do with it? Its not that low of a tuning, plus we are using thick strings. Later today I will have the bass here to try and see what I can do.

 

[savit260]

Could be that the nut slots are not cut deep enough? This could create excessive tension when fretting the first couple of frets, causing those notes to be sharp. Just a guess.

^ This.