Tell us more about this. You seem pretty confident about the unisyn. I’d love to know more about how you use it any why you think it’s so much better!
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Bass Synth Instruments
- Thread starter jimfist
- Start date
Lightwave 'by itself' sounded really really good to me (I didnt have the hexFX in mine).
And the neck profile on mine was AMAZING, one of the nicest feeling basses ever. I entirely prefer short scales, but could play the lightwave (Sabre) for hours without noticing it was a long scale. I've owned a couple of custom built MIDI guitars but never got round to running a MIDI bass. But I bet the Lightwave would be an excellent choice for that...
And the neck profile on mine was AMAZING, one of the nicest feeling basses ever. I entirely prefer short scales, but could play the lightwave (Sabre) for hours without noticing it was a long scale. I've owned a couple of custom built MIDI guitars but never got round to running a MIDI bass. But I bet the Lightwave would be an excellent choice for that...
Jam Origin MidiGuitar and MidiBass (used together since MidiBass is not polyphonic at this time) on a laptop. Or, the easy way is sending a pitch-shifted octave up into MidiGuitar (I use a Bass Whammy) - works pretty well with whatever synth plugin you want.
I know you said no keys but there are small form factor keyboards. I use the Moog Sub Phatty or a Korg Minilogue. I have not tried the Source Audio C4 yet. I tried some EHX synths bass and just opted for an analog synth driven by keyboard. It's more expressive
I ended up settling on a Boss Sy200. They are not doing audio to midi conversion, rather using an FFT process, so there is negligible latency.
But the reason I really like the Boss SY, and this is true for other FFT based ones like the EHX offerings, is that that approach allows them to map more nuance of your playing onto the synth sound (as well as polyphony). As someone that also plays keys, thats the main advantage of the bass to synth pedals.
For example, pick/finger scrapes, playing closer to the bridge v neck, with those really trying to accurately map pitch monophonically, those nuances can just cause them to glitch out.
Thats the other side of the coin to me of people saying ‘you have to play really cleanly or use x pickup.’ I was always able to get the others tracking well enough with clean single note technique, but that limits things creatively as far as timbre. And the polyphony is nice.
But the reason I really like the Boss SY, and this is true for other FFT based ones like the EHX offerings, is that that approach allows them to map more nuance of your playing onto the synth sound (as well as polyphony). As someone that also plays keys, thats the main advantage of the bass to synth pedals.
For example, pick/finger scrapes, playing closer to the bridge v neck, with those really trying to accurately map pitch monophonically, those nuances can just cause them to glitch out.
Thats the other side of the coin to me of people saying ‘you have to play really cleanly or use x pickup.’ I was always able to get the others tracking well enough with clean single note technique, but that limits things creatively as far as timbre. And the polyphony is nice.
D
I've used the Sonuus a bit. I got mine mostly for recording as I used to find some things easier to play on a bass than on a keyboard. Even in a controlled studio environment with the possibility to do more or less unlimited takes there was usually still quite a bit of MIDI cleanup required for a perfect result. Forget about slides, bends, popping, slapping, long sustaining notes or fast playing unless you REALLY enjoy spending time with a MIDI editor. Moderately fast playing and trying to keep overtones to a minimum was the key to success. Which basically meant it worked fine for some songs/genres but completely useless for others.
For playing live... I wouldn't trust it for any solo parts unless you don't mind unpredictable glitches. I guess the tracking might be good enough to work acceptably for a live bass in a dense mix... but I would make sure no-one does a recording of the gig.
Basically it's a fun, reasonably priced but also flawed little toy. I don't regret buying it but mostly because it made me realize I needed to improve my keyboard playing. Which I did and now the Sonuus is gathering dust.
Interesting, because I prefer tracking a regular bass tone with a pick because the tone is cleaner. For the Boss/FFT, would you say it's preferable to play a pick?
Thanks, everyone, for the great input and keep it coming.
There's a lot to mull over here, and it seems like there is still no single magic bullet...which is to be expected I suppose.
The Second Sound Unisyn triggering a MIDI sound module looks very interesting, paired with a C4 or Future Impact, seems like it would cover a lot of ground without going too crazy.
There's a lot to mull over here, and it seems like there is still no single magic bullet...which is to be expected I suppose.
The Second Sound Unisyn triggering a MIDI sound module looks very interesting, paired with a C4 or Future Impact, seems like it would cover a lot of ground without going too crazy.
Bass is hard to track. There are people who dedicate their lives to making modular synthesisers who haven't done it, and not for want of trying. It usually takes several cycles even with the cleanest signals. This causes latency that no player will accept. As a minimum it's probably best to filter out the root frequency and use the lowest harmonic, then transpose the resulting MIDI note value down an octave.
I tried a Sonuus device, and didn't like how erratic it was. I can get better results in an analog circuit I created, centred on a 4046 PLL, but I have not yet attempted to replicate the method in software. None of this is current work so don't hold your breath waiting for me.
I tried a Sonuus device, and didn't like how erratic it was. I can get better results in an analog circuit I created, centred on a 4046 PLL, but I have not yet attempted to replicate the method in software. None of this is current work so don't hold your breath waiting for me.
I have a Wilcox fretless hex and it tracks like a dream with my vb 99. The bolt-on pickups worked for me on a fretted Warwick 5 but it is a scary option for the weak of heart. Good luck!
Ultimately, I'm not looking for perfection, and would be able to cover most analog synth sounds pretty easily with a pedal. I'm currently using my Zoom B6 for synth sounds and it does fine for certain things. I think the tougher nut to crack is triggering PCM/Sampled sounds, for example, realistic solo strings or piano, and most likely very simple musical figures at moderate tempo.
Any idea which Boss/Roland 13-pin pedal includes PCM sounds? Are any still being produced? It seems that this is older, discontinued technology with the newer stuff being synth-based.
Any idea which Boss/Roland 13-pin pedal includes PCM sounds? Are any still being produced? It seems that this is older, discontinued technology with the newer stuff being synth-based.
Roland GR 88
Commercial User
^^^this^^^
There’s lots of ways to get what you want but here’s your pitch, waveform and envelope just like an old analog synth.
I have an original complete GR33b system and have used all the GR controllers on bass and guitar over the years. Triggering MIDI to an outboard device can be very frustrating depending on the patch you’re attempting to play. Latency has always been an issue using hex p/u’s and bypassing it’s dedicated controller.
The SY series have come as close as anything for tracking and forgiveness of technique IMO but be aware that even these suffer from the difficulty of using a plucked note to create a blown or hammered note from a horn or piano.
After nearly 40yrs of bass synth fun I’ve settled on an Boss octave into an EHX Tube Zipper where I can get 90% of what the GR33b does without latency or vast volume differences inherent with hex tracking and I leave the orchestra parts to others.
As a plus though, old Roland controllers and p/u’s can be found dirt cheap just about everywhere.
Good luck, you’ll never be completely satisfied but you should have lots of fun.
There are a ton of tiny synths about there. For me, a Volca Bass (16 small membrane keys) would be going too far. But something like a Novation Bass Station should have decent ergonomics without adding up to much more baggage than a rack module?
Or you could probably get away with a small two-octave MIDI controller with an ipad (or even just a phone).
I've used the Sonuus a bit. I got mine mostly for recording as I used to find some things easier to play on a bass than on a keyboard. Even in a controlled studio environment with the possibility to do more or less unlimited takes there was usually still quite a bit of MIDI cleanup required for a perfect result. Forget about slides, bends, popping, slapping, long sustaining notes or fast playing unless you REALLY enjoy spending time with a MIDI editor. Moderately fast playing and trying to keep overtones to a minimum was the key to success. Which basically meant it worked fine for some songs/genres but completely useless for others.
For playing live... I wouldn't trust it for any solo parts unless you don't mind unpredictable glitches. I guess the tracking might be good enough to work acceptably for a live bass in a dense mix... but I would make sure no-one does a recording of the gig.
Basically it's a fun, reasonably priced but also flawed little toy. I don't regret buying it but mostly because it made me realize I needed to improve my keyboard playing. Which I did and now the Sonuus is gathering dust.
I had a lot of the same results. As I posted, using just the bridge pickup cleaned up a lot of it but, as you say, it still had a wide margin of error. Even with just the bridge pickup, I had to play very staccato, a hair ahead of the beat (an ever so slightly pushed feel to get on the beat) with very clean precise articulation with absolutely no slides or inflections. Many songs came out correct with no errors but it was like playing on eggshells. It wasnt fun which is why I went back to having a keyboard onstage. This time, a Korg microSynth. It doesnt do any DX type of bass sounds but thats a small price to pay for a small mini keyboard that takes up literally no stage footprint
thanks for the input.
Well, unfortunately, there is nobody else in the group who has the desire to add any ear candy, so I'm it.
I've always loved experimenting with tech toys, and this is really just for a handful of specific situations that come up over the course of a gig. If I do go the GK pickup route, it will be integrated into the instrument, not an add on. Not convinced yet that I need to do that for my application.
I'm currently doing this, modeled in the Zoom B6: OC-2, distortion (Rat), envelope, Comp, chorus/flange, EQ. It covers those types of sounds just fine. A dedicated synth pedal would do more & better. The B6 also has some other reasonable sounding synth models that I've gotten some very cool sounds from. I consider that sort of a starting base point, and want to branch out from there.
Yes, I'm seeing this mentioned in a lot of reviews of MIDI triggering through the roland/boss pedal. I'm sure I won't be doing that.
I'll have to spend some time auditioning the various dedicated synth pedals. The SY200, SA C4, and Future Impact are all strong candidates with individual strengths, all getting mostly great reviews.
Well, unfortunately, there is nobody else in the group who has the desire to add any ear candy, so I'm it.
I've always loved experimenting with tech toys, and this is really just for a handful of specific situations that come up over the course of a gig. If I do go the GK pickup route, it will be integrated into the instrument, not an add on. Not convinced yet that I need to do that for my application.
The two anll-in-one options I got along with the most were the FI and Markbass Super Synth. I love me some ghost notes and those would still glitch but in a rad way, they had the best feel out of all I tried. In the end though, I always preferred my non-pedal synths or pedal chains with a fuzz and additional pedals. Both options sound much better with way less time invested per sound. Pitch trackers always seem to take away the feel I love about playing bass. If they don’t feel as good or sound as good what’s the point?
That said, I’m here because I’m looking for a good octave or two octave up option. Octave fuzz I delicious but I was hoping for something that would raise my fundamental not just fold or exaggerate my upper harmonics, looks like FI round two is in my future
The nastiest synth combination of pedals I have is Plasma Coil>Filter>chorus or Plasma Coil >Polaron, the later nails the Ginuwine Pony bass. Octavius Squeezer>chorus is fantastic too.
That said, I’m here because I’m looking for a good octave or two octave up option. Octave fuzz I delicious but I was hoping for something that would raise my fundamental not just fold or exaggerate my upper harmonics, looks like FI round two is in my future
The nastiest synth combination of pedals I have is Plasma Coil>Filter>chorus or Plasma Coil >Polaron, the later nails the Ginuwine Pony bass. Octavius Squeezer>chorus is fantastic too.
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I struggled/struggle with this, especially as I'm thinking of going to a Stomp XL. But, I use a Yamaha MODX6. Synth stuff just sounds better on a synth. And you play differently on a keyboard. Yeah, I know people get good results with pedals. I haven't. It's one more thing to haul, but worth it, I think, in the long run. Any additional instrument you play makes you a better musician.
