Basses under $1000 that put $2000+ basses to shame?

[TheArchitect]

For a new bass. That won't happen sorry.
A 2k bass will feel just better and be better. Of course it doesn't matter to make music and it doesn't matter to play rock in bar gig.

I say this with due respect and kindest of intention...

Where does it matter then?

Feel is a function of setup. "Be better"? How do yo quantify that without using the word feel? If the club audience can't tell the difference, I doubt a stadium audience will. Leo built those vintage basses with an eye to being as cost effective as possible and we worship those instruments.

We all get taught a lot dogma as we come up as players that we simply accept as fact without question. I know I did. You reach a point eventually where you start questioning those beliefs and begin to find that some of it either no longer stands up to scrutiny or never did.

 

[Willie5String]

I like a used Highway 1 Jazz or P. I think these basses are a great deal. For 4 string players, these basses can't be beat.

 

[Koshchei]

Y'all will have to forgive me. I've only been a "serious" bass player for roughly 3 years. And while I have spent a lot of time with guitars in all price ranges, I really don't have any experience with expensive basses beyond Fender's Elite series due to lack of time with this and access to more expensive basses.

This thread isn't meant to troll folks, because pros should have the best tools they can afford and many instruments are works of art in addition to just being a musical instrument, and I can appreciate that...

But I was just wondering if there were basses under $1000, that with a different name on the headstock, marketed well, could be marked up and sold over that $2000 price level- with the buyer being totally satisfied having paid a higher price- maybe a much higher price?...

So here's your chance to say which basses might be worth exponentially more than what they currently sell for (and possibly which expensive basses you might favorably compare them to.

Carvin.

Kiesel instruments are still a good deal, but they're not the bargains they used to be. Of course, they're orders of magnitude better as well.

 

[martinc]

Carvin.

Kiesel instruments are still a good deal, but they're not the bargains they used to be. Of course, they're orders of magnitude better as well.

Koschei: Just checked out the US-made Kiesel PB-4 line. Some very nice choices for $1200.00!

 

[OptimalOptimus]

I say this with due respect and kindest of intention...

Where does it matter then?

Feel is a function of setup. "Be better"? How do yo quantify that without using the word feel? If the club audience can't tell the difference, I doubt a stadium audience will. Leo built those vintage basses with an eye to being as cost effective as possible and we worship those instruments.

We all get taught a lot dogma as we come up as players that we simply accept as fact without question. I know I did. You reach a point eventually where you start questioning those beliefs and begin to find that some of it either no longer stands up to scrutiny or never did.

It matters to the player.

I find that I play better on 2k instrument better because they react better to my playing. I find less expensive instrument hide a lot of dynamics.

they also have attention to details that I like and don't want to deal with it for whatever reason.

neck pocket that is snug. No need for shim. Fret end hidden so no fret poking. A bridge that that offer a lot of possibilities. Interesting wood to look at. Body shape out of the ordinary. Active electronics that doesn't suck and need to be replace out of the box I tested too many of those that had subpar active electronics in basses that cost less than 1k.
all of that doesn't matter to the other but the player.

 

[TheArchitect]

It matters to the player.

I find that I play better on 2k instrument better because they react better to my playing. I find less expensive instrument hide a lot of dynamics.

they also have attention to details that I like and don't want to deal with it for whatever reason.

neck pocket that is snug. No need for shim. Fret end hidden so no fret poking. A bridge that that offer a lot of possibilities. Interesting wood to look at. Body shape out of the ordinary. Active electronics that doesn't suck and need to be replace out of the box I tested too many of those that had subpar active electronics in basses that cost less than 1k.
all of that doesn't matter to the other but the player.

Perhaps we need to define terms. I am curious. What instrument have you had to shim? Replace electronics? 20 years ago there was some truth to these things. I see sharp frets on instruments of all prices. That is a environmental issue, not a quality issue. I went bass shopping before I bought the SR300. Short of the very lowest end / entry level instruments I never saw any of these issues. Shim a neck pocket? Exceptions make the rule I suppose but these things are done on CNC machines. It is virtually impossible to be that drastically off.

I will agree to disagree and you can spend your money as you see fit of course. My experience tells me that these common issues of the past are not so much an issue of today.

 

[Mark Demmerle]

Just bought a Yamaha BB735A bass for under $1000. Great value and probably will sell for over $1000 next year. I have not played a lot of expensive basses but I am knowledgeable about classical guitars built by luthiers from around the world. The fit and finish, playability, aesthetics and tonal characteristics of the Yammy I think are a great value. It sounds beautiful through the Mark Bass 2x10 combo Head II

 

[stevieg]

Epiphone Vintage Pro Thunderbird, absolutely spanks the new Gibsons. At $699 it is a bargain and a half. I like them so much I bought three. View attachment 3793363

Nice color.

S

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Perhaps we need to define terms. I am curious. What instrument have you had to shim? Replace electronics? 20 years ago there was some truth to these things. I see sharp frets on instruments of all prices. That is a environmental issue, not a quality issue. I went bass shopping before I bought the SR300. Short of the very lowest end / entry level instruments I never saw any of these issues. Shim a neck pocket? Exceptions make the rule I suppose but these things are done on CNC machines. It is virtually impossible to be that drastically off.

I will agree to disagree and you can spend your money as you see fit of course. My experience tells me that these common issues of the past are not so much an issue of today.

perso I never had to shim but I've heard so many story of that especially with Fender. As a lefty I haven't have to play a lot of instruments but to me there is a huge difference between brand and price. All three of my German Warwick don't have fret end, it is hidden in the wood socI haven't have to cut those end. I live in a very dry winter and humid summer here in Canada. My Warwick trio are the first I don't need to adjust all the time and they are the first to not have fret end. Neck pocket is also stupid tight.
I had a very low end squire, Fender probably from Japan, and Ibanez GIO that all had various problems. Ai also had for a week a ESP B206SM ... which has active electronics. Played fine but the electronics was stupid aweful. At that time I was also playing Carvin basses and the ESP was far in term of electronics and body shape.
After that I had my first Warwick and The EBMM, those are good basses outside the G string being way to damn close to the edge of the fretboard.
I played a Fender mim jazz bass in the week before Covid and it wasn't very comfy bass to play. Big heavy .... it was weird. That same week I got my Warwick $$ four string. Way better bass.
To me.

 

[Sascha Erni]

But I was just wondering if there were basses under $1000, that with a different name on the headstock, marketed well, could be marked up and sold over that $2000 price level- with the buyer being totally satisfied having paid a higher price- maybe a much higher price?...

So here's your chance to say which basses might be worth exponentially more than what they currently sell for (and possibly which expensive basses you might favorably compare them to.

It depends. As is pretty much always the case.

With today's manufacturing and QA possibilities available, I guess it's quite hard to build a truly terrible "basic" bass guitar nowadays.

So to answer the sub-1000 challenge, first thing is to decide on the features you'd like to see in the bass guitar. 4 strings? 5 strings? 6 strings? Active or passive? How many pickups? Do you need LED in your fingerboard, or detuning keys? Lefty? The combination of features you'd like to compare between the "cheap" and "expensive" basses can make such a comparison impossible from the get-go.

Then, there's the options thing. What kind of finish? What sort of tuners? Relic'd? Zero fret? Alternate strap lugs position? Different pickups? Preferred neck profile? This will drive up the possible price range, too.

You will be hard-pressed to find a sub $1000 e.g. 5 string bass with LEDs, two active pickups and electronics, plus a piezo, fanned frets, string-through, and custom paint job that puts a $2000+ bass with the same specs to shame – to be able to build such an instrument for $1000 or less, they'd need to cut corners e.g. at QA or wood and electronics quality. Things might look differently though if you're just after a 4 string P-style bass with one passive pickup, standard neck profile, and a "don't care what it looks like, if it's too ugly I can strip it and repaint it myself" finish.

Proper setup and professional fret-dressing can turn a cheap "simple" bass up a notch or two, too, anyways. And you'd still be way below the upper $2000+ starting point. Swapping out the pickup and/or hardware probably would also be possible inside the budget, if so desired. But retrofitting the cheaper bass with LED, or a professional paint job in your preferred colours and pattern etc., plus a different neck, less so.

 

[vindibona1]

It depends. As is pretty much always the case.

With today's manufacturing and QA possibilities available, I guess it's quite hard to build a truly terrible "basic" bass guitar nowadays.

So to answer the sub-1000 challenge, first thing is to decide on the features you'd like to see in the bass guitar. 4 strings? 5 strings? 6 strings? Active or passive? How many pickups? Do you need LED in your fingerboard, or detuning keys? Lefty? The combination of features you'd like to compare between the "cheap" and "expensive" basses can make such a comparison impossible from the get-go.

Then, there's the options thing. What kind of finish? What sort of tuners? Relic'd? Zero fret? Alternate strap lugs position? Different pickups? Preferred neck profile? This will drive up the possible price range, too.

You will be hard-pressed to find a sub $1000 e.g. 5 string bass with LEDs, two active pickups and electronics, plus a piezo, fanned frets, string-through, and custom paint job that puts a $2000+ bass with the same specs to shame – to be able to build such an instrument for $1000 or less, they'd need to cut corners e.g. at QA or wood and electronics quality. Things might look differently though if you're just after a 4 string P-style bass with one passive pickup, standard neck profile, and a "don't care what it looks like, if it's too ugly I can strip it and repaint it myself" finish.

Proper setup and professional fret-dressing can turn a cheap "simple" bass up a notch or two, too, anyways. And you'd still be way below the upper $2000+ starting point. Swapping out the pickup and/or hardware probably would also be possible inside the budget, if so desired. But retrofitting the cheaper bass with LED, or a professional paint job in your preferred colours and pattern etc., plus a different neck, less so.

Of course your answer makes total sense. Perhaps a "question to the question", or the real question might be: Are you a good enough player, or sensitive enough musician, or even enough of an art aficionado to appreciate the differences between less expensive or more expensive models? I can only answer for myself in the past, present, and perhaps future...

My past: Clearly I could tell if I liked a bass and if it was particularly good or particularly bad. My first bass was purchased as an impulse buy on a Sunday afternoon at Sam Ash. They had a couple of used basses on hand and the one I liked best was a Squier VM70 Jazz. It felt pretty good, had two pickups and was better than the others. I wore the sales manager down who finally agreed to $150. In retrospect, I did pretty well, knowing little about basses. Being the curious tinkerer that I am, I replaced the pickups, added a Gotoh bridge, a Drop D tuner, then as sugggested had a professional fret level and setup. Everything improved (over-improved?) this bass. I knew it was easy to play, sounded good (to my neophyte ear) and did what I wanted... until I needed a 5 string...

My first 5 string was an Ibanez BTB 675. Still a bass newbie I first saw it in the hands of another guy (at nearby GC) who was just wailing on it. To my unseasoned eye it looked jaw-dropping. I actually went to that store to look at a cheaper bass, but never thought I could own or deserved something as cool as that BTB. The short story is that I negotiated with the manager and got it for $500. Without going into detail, within a month I ended up buying a Yamaha TRBX605 and only a few months later a 2010 Fender Jazz5 (I just had to have it. See avatar). Fool/tinkerer that I am, I once again over-improved the Jazz5 with Aguilar pickups, and an Audere preamp. Lastly I picked up an Ibanez Gio6er for dirt. I didn't own a bass amp, and wanted something for practice and small gigs so after trying Fender TC Electronic and GK amps. I did like the TCE BG250-12 but I went with the GK MB112.

My present: Only NOW am I beginning to learn which bass sounds I prefer and for what type of music. Only now am I beginning to appreciate the different sounds and hear the differences in demo recordings. Before I had no idea why someone would want a P bass over a J bass, or signature sounds of basses like Warwick, Ken Smith or Sadowsky. I've actually started to develop recipes on my settings. FWIW, it took a LONG time to only begin to figure out my TRBX605 and every day I like it more an more- understanding that it just produces a different sound than my other basses. While I'd still like to own a P bass, I can cover a lot of sonic ground with what I have.

What I have no reference for at the moment is the playability of "better" basses compared to what I now own. Having basses with different fingerboard radii and string spacing has given me an appreciation of the advantages of each of these basses. But at the same time I've also found that I can adapt to a wide range of variables.

My future: I don't know. So again, will I be able to find better playability in more expensive basses than my well set-up basses that collectively set me back $2500 (including some extensive upgrades)? Perhaps I'm fine with what I have? I think when the lockdown is over I need to seek out some better basses, perhaps to test my skill and sensitivity as much as those basses themselves. I suppose there will be a Part II to this thread at some point in the (hopefully near) future.

Thanks for taking time to read my lengthy thoughts.

 

[Sascha Erni]

My future: I don't know. So again, will I be able to find better playability in more expensive basses than my well set-up basses that collectively set me back $2500 (including some extensive upgrades)? Perhaps I'm fine with what I have? I think when the lockdown is over I need to seek out some better basses, perhaps to test my skill and sensitivity as much as those basses themselves. I suppose there will be a Part II to this thread at some point in the (hopefully near) future.

My personal situation in this regard:

Apart from my main bass, a FrankenFretless (Ibanez SR I defretted some 20 years ago, and then just went overboard with further edits), I play Precisions in the bands. My main P is a Sandberg California, the backup (and former main) a MIM Fender Precision. Price difference between the two is just about $1000.

The Sandberg "suits" me, best instrument I've ever played out of the box. Crazy low action possible, no noise, great workmanship, and ergonomics, light, etc. etc.. But if you go down to brass tacks, the main cost-driving differences to the Fender are:

- Pickups
- Hardware
- Setup (including fret leveling)

There's quite a lot I could do to the Fender for the $1000 price difference. Better pickups ($100-200), heavier bridge and lighter tuners ($500 or so; as much as I like my Fender, I'd have to replace it all to be comparable to the Sandberg), re-leveling of the frets and proper setup ($200 or so). And thus closes the gap. The Sandberg had several customisations I ordered, not the least in the electronics department, and a Hipshot bassXtender added. In short, as a basic instrument, the sub-$1000 Fender ist as much a great P as my almost-$2000 Sandberg. But getting them level, feature- and options-wise, lets the price difference shrink considerably. If you also add work hours, practically to nil.

Do I imagine some basses that would "suit" me even better? Yes. Probably. Will more money get you better tone? Probably. How relevant is better tone than a MIM P delivers in a rock/metal band context? Probably not all that much.

So yeah, it depends.

 

[vindibona1]

My personal situation in this regard:

Apart from my main bass,.... My main P is a Sandberg California, the backup (and former main) a MIM Fender Precision. Price difference between the two is just about $1000... But if you go down to brass tacks, the main cost-driving differences to the Fender are:
- Pickups
- Hardware
- Setup (including fret leveling)

There's quite a lot I could do to the Fender for the $1000 price difference. Better pickups ($100-200), heavier bridge and lighter tuners ($500 or so; as much as I like my Fender, I'd have to replace it all to be comparable to the Sandberg), re-leveling of the frets and proper setup ($200 or so). And thus closes the gap. The Sandberg had several customisations I ordered, not the least in the electronics department, and a Hipshot bassXtender added. In short, as a basic instrument, the sub-$1000 Fender ist as much a great P as my almost-$2000 Sandberg. But getting them level, feature- and options-wise, lets the price difference shrink considerably. If you also add work hours, practically to nil.

Do I imagine some basses that would "suit" me even better? Yes. Probably. Will more money get you better tone? Probably. How relevant is better tone than a MIM P delivers in a rock/metal band context? Probably not all that much.

So yeah, it depends.

Again, an intelligent post. I feel you. One of my late friends had a quote. She often referenced "Coffee leads to donuts. Donuts leads to ants". I suppose that's a fitting metaphor for over-improvement. And perhaps I'm guilty (more than once- and you'd think I'd have learned the first time). But in my defense, at the time I wouldn't have described myself as a bass player, but a guitar player who plays guitar. I'd like to think I'd classify myself differently today.

But in regard to your stated differences between a better stock model vs an upgraded model, at this stage I'm wondering if I've really upped the game of a lower cost bass, or wasted money that should have been put toward a more "professional" level bass. I'll figure that out when I've become a better, more professional player. But the $1000 difference might be arguable- in both directions. In the case of my MIM Jazz5, I bought it used for $400 in mint condition. The first thing I did was have the frets leveled and crowned for $100. I subsequently added Aguilar Noiseless pickups for $180 (got a great deal on them) and an Audere ProZ preamp at $150. I thought it a bit neck heavy so put in Hipshot ultralight tuners which really balanced it and improved it's playabilty a lot for $130. The whole thing cost me $960 with all the upgrades. Could I have done better buying a new bass with similar features for $1000? I'm not sure. Maybe that $960 would have gotten me a comparable Lakland? $1000 more would have put me in a Sandberg. Perhaps that would have been wiser. I don't know. But what I know is that for me, right now this upgraded Jazz5 covers a lot of ground, plays great and has a lot of sonic versatility; for sure much better than in it's $400 form ($800 new Fender Standard Jazz Bass V Brown Sunburst | Main Street Music & Sound | Reverb )

Below are After/Before composites of where my Jazz5 started and is now. Worth the money? Hindslight is always 20/20.

 

[Mark Demmerle]

I recently bought a Yamaha BB735A. I think it was a great deal for $799. It's an active/passive bass. It's design construction and materials a very well thought out. This bass is made in Indonesia. The fit and finish is excellent. I'm pretty sure this is not a $2000 bass under a different name but might be worth twice as much as the $799 selling price. Compared to other $800 basses, I would choose the BB735A without a second thought. It will be interesting to check the price points on this bass next year. Meanwhile, I really dig playing it. Psychic value is more important than price points. What's the point of owning an extraordinarily expensive bass if you don't dig playing it???

 

[MAJOR METAL]

Sonically at least, the Epiphone Jack Casady bass.

 

[Dave Neal]

I recently bought a Yamaha BB735A. I think it was a great deal for $799. It's an active/passive bass. It's design construction and materials a very well thought out. This bass is made in Indonesia. The fit and finish is excellent. I'm pretty sure this is not a $2000 bass under a different name but might be worth twice as much as the $799 selling price. Compared to other $800 basses, I would choose the BB735A without a second thought. It will be interesting to check the price points on this bass next year. Meanwhile, I really dig playing it. Psychic value is more important than price points. What's the point of owning an extraordinarily expensive bass if you don't dig playing it???

I would say you are spot on with the Yammie, amazing bass for the money and puts a $2000 bass to shame.

 

[vindibona1]

I recently bought a Yamaha BB735A. I think it was a great deal for $799. It's an active/passive bass. It's design construction and materials a very well thought out. This bass is made in Indonesia. The fit and finish is excellent. I'm pretty sure this is not a $2000 bass under a different name but might be worth twice as much as the $799 selling price. Compared to other $800 basses, I would choose the BB735A without a second thought. It will be interesting to check the price points on this bass next year. Meanwhile, I really dig playing it. Psychic value is more important than price points. What's the point of owning an extraordinarily expensive bass if you don't dig playing it???

Yamaha cranks out some incredible instruments across their entire line. If circumstances were different when I wanted a 5 string the BB735 probably would have been my choice. My Yamaha TRBX605 is flawless in every way. The only thing that could possibly be upgraded are the electronics. Yamaha continuously knocks it out of the park. Many professional brass and wind players are now playing Yamaha instruments. Drums. Pianos. You name it and the Yamaha brand stands out.

IMO Indonsian made instruments now are the equivalent to what we used to see coming out of Japan. I now have 5 basses and 4 of them were made in Indonesia. Some of the threads that I started revolve around the question "Is there anything to really upgrade to that justifies $1000-$2000 more of an investment?

Just to marvel at Yamaha one more time, I just bought my son-in-law an early fathers day present. I swung a deal with a nearby dealer- $165 shipped! There are acoustics over $1000 that aren't as good.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

Used US Music Man. Best bass value out there as far as I'm concerned. They can be had for under a grand and in good shape pretty regularly, and are as good a mass-produced instrument as exists. Occasionally used US G&Ls can be found for sub-$1000, and I consider them to be the quality equals of Music Man. The really nice Ibanez and Yamaha basses are REALLY nice, and can regularly be found used under a thousand simoleons. They're outstanding compared to most at anywhere nearly their price. Used German Warwicks hold their value pitifully for some reason, and can often be found for less than a grand.

I don't think you'll find a new bass under a grand that can compete in quality with $2000+ instruments, the thousand dollar range is typically what separates the proverbial men from the boys in solid body electric instruments. Possible exception for Warmoth (maybe other outfits, I only have experience with Warmoth) parts basses, if you can do the work yourself and find a body and neck you like in stock you can put together a HELL of an instrument for a thousand bucks, far above the quality of US Fenders that cost $1500+.

 

[chris_b]

I have 2 basses that I bought used for just over $2k each. It's a long time since I owned a $1k bass, but so far I haven't found any that sound and play this good as my current pair.

 

[vindibona1]

I have 2 basses that I bought used for just over $2k each. It's a long time since I owned a $1k bass, but so far I haven't found any that sound and play this good as my current pair.

It's always a comparative thing. You get spoiled (or trained...or brainwashed ) with a certain feel or sound and everything else sounds a little foreign, worse or better (?). Of course, given a good match for neck profile, body shape and size, we can always make a cheap bass play well. As well as the $2000+ basses? I dunno. Maybe in some cases. Perhaps if they let me out of my COVID-cage I'll go exploring just for fun.

And as we look at basses of various price ranges, we need to acknowledge that they are nothing without the amp they get attached to to actually make the sound. Did we demo that amp that we purchased with OUR bass(es), or just plug one of the store basses into a demo amp they had on hand? Or did we take the trouble to bring OUR bass for the demo? Are you as satisfied with the sound on a gig as you are practicing at home, or vice versa?

I thought I checked all the boxes when I bought my first and only bass amp. I tried some at the store, with and without any of my basses, bought one and brought it home. Different than at the store. Bought another amp. Played side by side with the first one. Returned the first one. Bought a third amp and ended up keeping that one, returning the second, though the second would have been a good choice as well. But it was, after deep discount still only $400. And of course there is the age old question, would you be better off with a $300 bass and a $1500 amp, or a $1500 bass and a $300 amp (and all the variations)?... Or are you truly better off with the $1500 amp and $3000 bass????