Double Bass Beethoven 5 (Trio)/Strauss Don Jaun Excerpts

[Illfavor]

How similar are the bow techniques for these pieces? I've had it explained as being on the string, with a short bow that "bounces without leaving to string."

How do you all play these excerpts?

 

[Cory Palmer]

They are almost identical strokes. I tend to play the trio slightly heavier but there is really not much difference. Depending on who you study with and the style that they play will decide how off the string the stroke should be. I study with a member of the New York Philharmonic right now so I tend to play very off the string but when I was studying with a member of the Philadelphia Orchestra it was very into the string. The bow bounced but the hair usually didn't leave the string.

 

[davidzgeorge]

i would tend to think that the Strauss stroke should be heavier than the Beethoven. In general strokes should get heavier and longer as you move forward in time. Light and fluffy for mozart, a bit longer for Beethoven, more so for Brahms and especially longer and more in the string for Strauss. But also, listen to what your teacher tells you.

 

[Illfavor]

Yes of course I'll listen to my teacher. I was just looking for some regional input, which I'm getting. Thanks guys.

 

[Cory Palmer]

In general strokes should get heavier and longer as you move forward in time. Light and fluffy for mozart, a bit longer for Beethoven, more so for Brahms and especially longer and more in the string for Strauss.

I don't completely agree with that. Maybe we mean different things by heavy. I don't think Brahms is heavier than Beethoven. Brahms bow strokes tend to be longer but they are not as aggressive as Beethoven. Strauss is the same way. Don Juan is a more light hearted piece than Beethoven 5. Try not to think of these composers only in terms of the major excerpts that we play. Let the character of the rest of the music influence how you play each excerpt. If I were playing Brahms 1 at E without respect to the rest of Brahms 1 I would probably play it more aggressively.

 

[Illfavor]

I don't completely agree with that. Maybe we mean different things by heavy. I don't think Brahms is heavier than Beethoven. Brahms bow strokes tend to be longer but they are not as aggressive as Beethoven. Strauss is the same way. Don Juan is a more light hearted piece than Beethoven 5. Try not to think of these composers only in terms of the major excerpts that we play. Let the character of the rest of the music influence how you play each excerpt. If I were playing Brahms 1 at E without respect to the rest of Brahms 1 I would probably play it more aggressively.

That's interesting, because, while Beethoven's Fifth is a serious symphony, it is not "dark" in all of its elements. That symphony transforms itself fairly quickly from the "Fate" of the first movement, to the prancing dance music of the second, to the perverted dance of the third, to the super cheerful "yay for the majesty of heaven" Finale.
How do you approach the second half of the 3rd mvt? A lot of the recordings I have of this mvt aren't....crazy enough. They all sound really neat and nice, when that just doesn't make much sense to me in the context of the larger movement, and symphony. How do you feel about that? I sat in on a Rob Kassinger master class(with Matt Heller playing the Scherzo) where he described the repeated themes as getting increasingly edgy. The second theme of the scherz (G-FGADEF, repeated 3 times and such) should get louder and less controlled each time it's played. It sounded pretty good and I think it's a good idea.

 

[Cory Palmer]

I agree with Rob Kassinger's approach. The Trio is definitely edgy and there is still a lot of tension that doesn't get resolved until the fourth movement.