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Double Bass Beginner help
- Thread starter Nova221
- Start date
The double bass and the electric bass are two related, but very different instruments. The technique, approach, physical requirements, style, and a host of other aspects are very different. If you wish to play the DB with any real proficiency, then it would be best to get a real DB teacher. It's pretty easy to spot a converted EB player who has a DB in his hands and vice versa. Neither really PLAYS the instrument for what it is. I admire people who can play both instruments with expertise. I'm a one-trick pony. DB all the way.
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Go in expecting that a lot will be different. The good news is that all your musicality will carry over from the electric side. You'll be busy with the physical side of things on DB for awhile
Both instruments can be played at levels from rudimentary to virtuosic. Good music can be made at any level of technical prowess, but you have to be aware of your ability and how it can work musically in an ensemble. Roots music on either instrument requires a lower level of technical skill than say classical or jazz, and accomplished soloing in either of these genres is best with a high level of skill.
The main differences between the two instruments are the vertical/horizontal, the longer string length of DB (6-9"), the generally higher action of DB and the appropriate techniques to get the sound/music out with the least amount of physical effort.
Getting the sound out of an acoustic instrument (even when using an amp) is much different than with a strictly electric instrument. Setup on DB is more challenging to accomplish than on BG and extremely important. As a proficient doubler, I find DB more taxing physically, but both instruments have their challenges, especially with a lot of playing time involved.
I suggest spending time watching videos of double bass players in all genres. Many of your questions will probably be answered about what is required.
The main differences between the two instruments are the vertical/horizontal, the longer string length of DB (6-9"), the generally higher action of DB and the appropriate techniques to get the sound/music out with the least amount of physical effort.
Getting the sound out of an acoustic instrument (even when using an amp) is much different than with a strictly electric instrument. Setup on DB is more challenging to accomplish than on BG and extremely important. As a proficient doubler, I find DB more taxing physically, but both instruments have their challenges, especially with a lot of playing time involved.
I suggest spending time watching videos of double bass players in all genres. Many of your questions will probably be answered about what is required.
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Much good advice in this thread, nothing I feel I can add other than to give a bit of advice.
You already play the bass guitar, so you have some callouses, muscle strength and theory to work with. You will find your left hand technique becomes much more important. The bass players claw!
After a month or so of dedication to your scales, might only be 10 minutes at a time as you build up your forearm muscles. Play a few scales, focus on perfect left hand position and LISTEN to each pitch. Play a few perfect scales and save your muscles for another few perfect scales in an hour or so. If you find your finger collapsing flat, time to rest. Keep that left hand a claw. Soon you'll be able to rip the heart out of an elephant with your left hand alone.
You already play the bass guitar, so you have some callouses, muscle strength and theory to work with. You will find your left hand technique becomes much more important. The bass players claw!
After a month or so of dedication to your scales, might only be 10 minutes at a time as you build up your forearm muscles. Play a few scales, focus on perfect left hand position and LISTEN to each pitch. Play a few perfect scales and save your muscles for another few perfect scales in an hour or so. If you find your finger collapsing flat, time to rest. Keep that left hand a claw. Soon you'll be able to rip the heart out of an elephant with your left hand alone.
The "of sorts" part is concerning. I urge you to find a teacher who is accomplished on the double bass. It's important for a number of reasons including helping you to avoid injury. I agree with Eric that watching some expert videos would be a helpful supplement. I'm confident though that Eric would agree that nothing comes close to having a living, breathing, expert right next to you who can give you immediate feedback and demonstrate proper technique.
Here is an excellent resource for video lessons from a real expert.
Whatever you do, stay away from this "expert's videos." That is, for other than entertainment.
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As a recent convert, do not treat the double bass like a bass guitar! Like the others have said, it will hurt you and probably stop you from playing it. A good teacher is a must so you can fully learn about proper technique. Make sure you're playing on a bass of good quality (don't go the cheap Chinese bass route) that has a great set up because a bad set up can also hurt you. And most importantly, don't forget the bow! I primarily play jazz but once I started playing in my school orchestra, my intonation has improved amazingly! It's a challenging, but rewarding adventure. Best of luck!
There are also on-line instructor options if you have a web cam or smart phone, pretty easy to set up a Skype call lesson online. I still learn from Andy Zandrozny, one of the heavy hitters in the Seattle area even though he's mostly at his retreat in New Mexico. Heh
He's got plenty of gigs to keep him happy in NM so it's a scramble to get a face to face with him when he's occasionally in town. Consider finding an online instructor if there truly is absolutely no one available in your area taking students.
He's got plenty of gigs to keep him happy in NM so it's a scramble to get a face to face with him when he's occasionally in town. Consider finding an online instructor if there truly is absolutely no one available in your area taking students.
It's an entirely new animal, but your theory and previous ear training will help a lot. Try not to get discouraged. After a few weeks you'll see you stamina increase noticeably.
Showing up to a potential gig and having both electric and double bass options is always nice. Audition on both, give them some different textures and sounds to work with.
We all have our problems with intonation. Are you working out of any classical method books (Simandl, Vance, Rabbath etc)? The standard left hand fingering is 1, 2, and 3 and 4 as one digit. Either learning the traditional Simandl positions or Rabbath's new positioning system will greatly help your intonation. Maybe consider putting temporary markings (tape preferably) either on the side of the finger board or right on it. This supposedly helps a lot of people, but I never used tape. Also, keep your left arm up when playing and see if leaning your bass into you helps.
Jazzcat is spot on and more accurately described what I was getting at when I talked about "the left hand claw." If you can keep your left hand technique solid you won't miss frets, besides, you can instantly correct your intonation without frets. It will be very very important, particularly while leaning, to be able to hear yourself well. On smaller jazz gigs, I"ll prop my speaker cab up on a chair or tilt it towards my face, screw the audience. I only care if I can hear my self. It's their job to listen to me!
But seriously, always try to have a good monitor sound so you can hear your intonation with the other instruments.
Being a recent convert, I can so agree with that statement Capt. Obvious. As soon as I truly fell in love with the double bass, I bought myself a fretless neck and slapped it on my electric. Frets seem useless now and ruin the fun of playing now for me. Not having frets inhibit you also helps big in personal expression. I love having the power of being able to shape a note on the double bass or fretless electric over just plinking out notes on a fretted bass IMO. Also, do not practice with an amp. Learn how to develop a big acoustic sound and learn how to amplify it. Use the side of your index finger and the side tip of your middle finger to help get a big tone. Right hand electric bass fingerings with the tips of your fingers won't help you here.
To true! Being able to massage that note, give that pitch some vibrato at the right time, really opens up expressive possibilities. Pitches love vibrato.
Don't be afraid to mark some key hand positions on the neck, I've seen many new students use those small colored stickers you can pick up at an office supply store. I've even seen a few that will carefully take a knife to the back of the neck, where your left thumb will be living and actually make landmarks so it's easy to find an upper register position easier. A good tech has likely done those kinds of mods before.
Hmmm... the positions in which the thumb is still in contact with the back of the neck are just the beginning of the upper register if the upper register at all. I'm surprised that players would notch the neck for those. I've never seen that. I'd encourage reliance on "muscle" and tactile memory over permanent notches in the neck.
I totally hear ya, it's probably going a bit over board. Plus, you could never turn your bass around on stage because the audience might see behind the magic! hahaha
Here's my two cents on putting marks on the neck....
Cent One - The first time I gut my guts up to jam with other people, the nerves got me leading up to it. So what did I do? I put tape on at the usual positions. I tried practicing with the marks once, and it screwed me up so bad mentally that I ripped them off after about a half an hour. I started to try and play with my my eyes instead of my ears, and it just didn't work for me. No marks ever again for me.
Cent Two - I've been playing for about 5 years, and am gaining confidence all the time. I've started writing shorts solos for different songs my band plays. Recently I jumped into the deep end, got out of my comfort zone, and went up into (gasp) thumb position for a part. For months I would be pitch perfect in my practice room, then absolute garbage when I played said part with the band. So....with a gig I wanted to impress coming up, and knowing I had to play that solo - I practiced it over, and over, and over, and over....at different speeds on the metronome. Some faster than what I needed, some slower than I'll ever played. Last saturday came and I nailed it. Muscle memory and ears did the driving for me up to notes I couldn't imagine playing even two years ago.
Marks are for the birds.
Cent One - The first time I gut my guts up to jam with other people, the nerves got me leading up to it. So what did I do? I put tape on at the usual positions. I tried practicing with the marks once, and it screwed me up so bad mentally that I ripped them off after about a half an hour. I started to try and play with my my eyes instead of my ears, and it just didn't work for me. No marks ever again for me.
Cent Two - I've been playing for about 5 years, and am gaining confidence all the time. I've started writing shorts solos for different songs my band plays. Recently I jumped into the deep end, got out of my comfort zone, and went up into (gasp) thumb position for a part. For months I would be pitch perfect in my practice room, then absolute garbage when I played said part with the band. So....with a gig I wanted to impress coming up, and knowing I had to play that solo - I practiced it over, and over, and over, and over....at different speeds on the metronome. Some faster than what I needed, some slower than I'll ever played. Last saturday came and I nailed it. Muscle memory and ears did the driving for me up to notes I couldn't imagine playing even two years ago.
Marks are for the birds.
