Beginner Question for PA System - 4 Ohm amp/8 ohm speakers

[Joe Ty]

Looking at buying a PA system, mainly for home use but would rather buy something decent up front and not have to worry about upgrading down the road.

I am focused on the Peavey PV 20 USB 20-channel Mixer with 16 Mic Preamps and USB Computer Connection after looking long and hard at a powered Peavey mixer. Reading a number of threads on this forum, I think I want to go with a passive mixer. Plus, for some reason it's cheaper to buy the above board and a Peavey power amp of similar ratings than a power mixer.

Anyway, either way you need 4 ohm's resistance per channel to maximize wattage and 90+% of the speakers are 8 ohm's. Do most people just buy four speakers vs looking for a appropriate 4 ohm set?

 

[JohnMCA72]

You will need 1 or more power amps to drive your speakers. Power amps are in the signal chain between your mixer & speakers, & can exist in 1 of 3 places:

1. Integrated with the mixer (i.e. "active" or "powered" mixer).
2. Integrated with each speaker (i.e. "active" or "powered" speakers).
3. Stand-alone unit(s).

Obviously, it's pretty much pointless to use powered speakers with a powered mixer because you'd have a redundancy of power amps to have to buy & carry around.

Stand-alone power amps need to be matched to the speakers. You can get into some serious problems that I won't go into here with amp/speaker mismatches.

I have a strong preference for powered speakers, which work well with a passive mixer. No need to care about impedance or power ratings - somebody a lot more qualified has already done the engineering. No need to haul a rack of power amps & you can expand the system by daisy-chaining them indefinitely. I'd look for something that sounds good, gets loud enough, & fits your budget.

 

[Joe Ty]

You will need 1 or more power amps to drive your speakers. Power amps are in the signal chain between your mixer & speakers, & can exist in 1 of 3 places:

1. Integrated with the mixer (i.e. "active" or "powered" mixer).
2. Integrated with each speaker (i.e. "active" or "powered" speakers).
3. Stand-alone unit(s).

Obviously, it's pretty much pointless to use powered speakers with a powered mixer because you'd have a redundancy of power amps to have to buy & carry around.

Stand-alone power amps need to be matched to the speakers. You can get into some serious problems that I won't go into here with amp/speaker mismatches.

I have a strong preference for powered speakers, which work well with a passive mixer. No need to care about impedance or power ratings - somebody a lot more qualified has already done the engineering. No need to haul a rack of power amps & you can expand the system by daisy-chaining them indefinitely. I'd look for something that sounds good, gets loud enough, & fits your budget.

Thanks, I've been leaning that direction as well. The power amp I was looking at was also a Peavey (IPR2 2000), which delivers 530W at 4 ohms and 900W at 2 ohms, but 4 ohm passive speakers are damn hard to find. Most are 8, so I assume folks must be putting two per channel to get to 4 ohms.

As you said, much easier to go with powered speakers and not worry about mismatches. I like the Peavey PV115D's. They look rugged and have good reviews, and are reasonably light.

 

[WayneP]

Fortunately you don’t really need 4-ohm speakers. According to Peavey’s specs, the amp you’re talking about will deliver 290 watts with 8-ohm speakers. That should be more than enough for home use.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
Pedulla Club #45

 

[Joe Ty]

Fortunately you don’t really need 4-ohm speakers. According to Peavey’s specs, the amp you’re talking about will deliver 290 watts with 8-ohm speakers. That should be more than enough for home use.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club #133
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
Pedulla Club #45

Good point, and if I ever use it for playing out I would just add two more 8 ohm speakers in series to pull out the full wattage.

Still, I am leaning towards just buying powered speakers. As I peruse the threads on here it seems to be the trend in the industry.

 

[s0c9]

Given the choice.. I'd go powered..
That decision opens pandora's box, because you have a whole host of GOOD powered PA speakers, from JBL, QSC, Mackie, EV, and...
Determine what your budget is and that should narrow the range.

 

[musicman7722]

Back to the Peavey power amp thread above you could also plug both of your tops into one side which would give you a 4 ohm load and the fully quoted watts. Then use the other side for monitors. It doesn't appear to have bridge mode capability which would let you gang up both sides into a 4 ohm load.

 

[lakefx]

Why focus on that Peavey board? For the same money, you can get one of the new generation of digital boards that will provide good effects and work as a recording interface?

 

[s0c9]

Why focus on that Peavey board? For the same money, you can get one of the new generation of digital boards that will provide good effects and work as a recording interface?

I have come to know and love the [power, flexibility and ease of use of] the X32 Rack we use for our IEM mixes.. I may even buy one [maybe] to replace the ancient Mackie I have at the house. I can always use it for the next band I join

 

[lakefx]

I have come to know and love the [power, flexibility and ease of use of] the X32 Rack we use for our IEM mixes.. I may even buy one [maybe] to replace the ancient Mackie I have at the house. I can always use it for the next band I join

I have the X-18, but it's so much better than any analog board I've worked on in remotely the same price range. Hence my question as to why the OP is focused on that particular Peavey board.

 

[s0c9]

I have the X-18, but it's so much better than any analog board I've worked on in remotely the same price range. Hence my question as to why the OP is focused on that particular Peavey board.

I was (am?) old school and in the early days of digital, had a tough time going from being able to "grab a fader" to the multiple workflow layers that existed on devices like Yammy's O1v96i. The X32 series changed all that and has become the standard by which others are judged IME.
Now, give me digital any day.. They ALL have the same basic features, so it [now] boils down to vendor loyalty and workflow.
Just the ability to save settings from venue to venue means not having to zero out the board and start over on each channel. Add in WIFI, routing, channel and effect features, musician control of their own IEM mixes, matrix outs, etc..and to me.. there's no justification for remaining analog.. other than budget.
YMMV

 

[Joe Ty]

Why focus on that Peavey board? For the same money, you can get one of the new generation of digital boards that will provide good effects and work as a recording interface?

I think mainly because of the simplicity and the reviews, although my kids could probably figure out how to use the digital boards.

 

[Joe Ty]

I was (am?) old school and in the early days of digital, had a tough time going from being able to "grab a fader" to the multiple workflow layers that existed on devices like Yammy's O1v96i. The X32 series changed all that and has become the standard by which others are judged IME.
Now, give me digital any day.. They ALL have the same basic features, so it [now] boils down to vendor loyalty and workflow.
Just the ability to save settings from venue to venue means not having to zero out the board and start over on each channel. Add in WIFI, routing, channel and effect features, musician control of their own IEM mixes, matrix outs, etc..and to me.. there's no justification for remaining analog.. other than budget.
YMMV

There is one other thing and maybe I have it all wrong, but I thought "analog" would do a better job of preserving the tone than digital. If that's not the case, then I should explore digital more.

Edit: Maybe I should back up to the start again after all this helpful commentary. I have the luxury of starting from scratch vs trying to upgrade something that all of you experienced musicians who've been doing this since the analog days have had to deal with. My objectives are all follows:

1.) PA system for rehearsing at home with my two kids (oldest-guitar,yougest-keyboards/drums) and their friends who play guitar and drums.

2.) I'd like to eventually use it to play out and not buy something different, but it could be years before we are at that point.

3.) I am 50 years old and have the money to buy what I want (and presumably need) as long as I can explain to my wife why we need it. She is very understanding as the music thing is viewed as far more constructive than the kids wasting time on their iPads or playing XBox (other than Guitar Smith, of course).

4.) I believe initially we'd only be running vocals and keyboards through the PA.

 

[lakefx]

There is one other thing and maybe I have it all wrong, but I thought "analog" would do a better job of preserving the tone than digital. If that's not the case, then I should explore digital more.

Edit: Maybe I should back up to the start again after all this helpful commentary. I have the luxury of starting from scratch vs trying to upgrade something that all of you experienced musicians who've been doing this since the analog days have had to deal with. My objectives are all follows:

1.) PA system for rehearsing at home with my two kids (oldest-guitar,yougest-keyboards/drums) and their friends who play guitar and drums.

2.) I'd like to eventually use it to play out and not buy something different, but it could be years before we are at that point.

3.) I am 50 years old and have the money to buy what I want (and presumably need) as long as I can explain to my wife why we need it. She is very understanding as the music thing is viewed as far more constructive than the kids wasting time on their iPads or playing XBox (other than Guitar Smith, of course).

4.) I believe initially we'd only be running vocals and keyboards through the PA.

The lower end digital mixers definitely take a little bit of time to learn how to use and you need a tablet, computer, or phone to control them, but it sounds like you have that. The sound quality of all of them is quite good at this point, plus it saves you the expense of outboard effects. If you decide to start recording with your kids and their friends, then some of them also double as an interface for the computer and you can just plug them into a DAW and off you go. To that end, since budget isn't a major factor for you, I would recommend getting one with more channels than you think you need that will also double as a full DAW interface. That was my criteria when I ended up getting the Behringer X-18. I've also played gigs with the Soundcraft and Mackie digital boards and they both sound great too. I figured I would only be using a few channels at a time, but we started recording rehearsals regularly using a three mic technique on the drums, plus 2 keyboards, guitar, bass, violin, and 3 vocal mics. That adds up quickly to a lot of channels, but the results have been really great.

For a really good budget system, I have the Behringer X-18 and a single EV ZLX-12P powered speaker. It handles vocals for rehearsals pretty well and has even worked for some low volume gigs. It's easy to expand with powered speakers because you just buy more of them and chain them together. There are lots of other great powered speakers too. I just liked the EV best for my budget.

 

[s0c9]

Basically, what @lakefx said.
All the stuff that used to be outboard processing for analog boards - compression, reverb, echo/delay, chorus, enhancers, etc - is now all ONBOARD on digital consoles and available on EVERY channel.
Add in remote access via wireless and you are free to roam.
Since budget doesn't seem to be an issue, I'd look at getting more than you need - in terms of input channels.
Soundcraft Ui series ,Mackie DL806, Behringer X and XR series, QSC Touchmix, Allen and Heath Qu-Pac, Roland MX1, Yamaha TF rack, are some you could look at.

 

[Joe Ty]

The lower end digital mixers definitely take a little bit of time to learn how to use and you need a tablet, computer, or phone to control them, but it sounds like you have that. The sound quality of all of them is quite good at this point, plus it saves you the expense of outboard effects. If you decide to start recording with your kids and their friends, then some of them also double as an interface for the computer and you can just plug them into a DAW and off you go. To that end, since budget isn't a major factor for you, I would recommend getting one with more channels than you think you need that will also double as a full DAW interface. That was my criteria when I ended up getting the Behringer X-18. I've also played gigs with the Soundcraft and Mackie digital boards and they both sound great too. I figured I would only be using a few channels at a time, but we started recording rehearsals regularly using a three mic technique on the drums, plus 2 keyboards, guitar, bass, violin, and 3 vocal mics. That adds up quickly to a lot of channels, but the results have been really great.

For a really good budget system, I have the Behringer X-18 and a single EV ZLX-12P powered speaker. It handles vocals for rehearsals pretty well and has even worked for some low volume gigs. It's easy to expand with powered speakers because you just buy more of them and chain them together. There are lots of other great powered speakers too. I just liked the EV best for my budget.

Ok, I checked out the X32. There appear to be no 1/4 inch analog inputs if you want to go direct from your instrument or DI box (using an instrument cable). Is that the case with all digital boards?

 

[lakefx]

Ok, I checked out the X32. There appear to be no 1/4 inch analog inputs if you want to go direct from your instrument or DI box (using an instrument cable). Is that the case with all digital boards?

The X-32 is targeting more of a pro grade user where you never use 1/4". The X-18 has 1/4" on all channels (XLR combo jacks that also take 1/4") and instrument level preamps on 2 channels. The Mackie that was at our gig this past weekend also had 1/4" for all channels.

 

[Joe Ty]

Also, my iPad is an iPad-3 and has the old cable, not Lightning.

 

[Joe Ty]

The X-32 is targeting more of a pro grade user where you never use 1/4". The X-18 has 1/4" on all channels (XLR combo jacks that also take 1/4") and instrument level preamps on 2 channels. The Mackie that was at our gig this past weekend also had 1/4" for all channels.

Thanks, I was wondering what those inputs were. Now I can see it.

 

[s0c9]

I've never been happy running a Hi-Z signal straight into a console for instruments.. but that's me.
FWIW - one should NOT be going Hi-Z from a DI into any console, unless you have no other choice.
It should always be Low-Z (XLR).
That's what DI's are designed for! Hi-Z (1/4") to low-Z (XLR)