Double Bass Belcanto vs Passione

[tomshepp]

Thinking of replacing The Evahs. Would like to hear opinions/preferences on these, especially if you've used both. I'd want them for orchestral playing.

 

[Rob Thompson]

I've played Passiones on two different basses. They were very dark, loose feeling and didn't seem to provide a lot of volume. That said, I could see how maybe they'd work great on certain basses. They bow really easy. Pizz I didn't really try.

I've played BelCantos on my orchestra basses for a couple years and haven't found better. The sound is generally more complex and string has a stiffer feel with more volume than the Passione. Bow easy and pizz is fat with reasonable sustain. Caveat lector though, I never compared Passione and BelCanto on the same bass.

 

[Illfavor]

Having compared them both on my Jackstadt I can say the following:

Belcantos are clearly louder but more difficult to bow. The tone is great. A very good string obviously.

Passiones are softer but richer, more buttery. I'm not sure how that effects projection but they blend in a section tremendously well. Much easier on both hands. My bass is loud as it is so I'm leaning towards these for ease of play and tone.

 

[elmer]

I´ve had both Passiones orchestra and stark gauges and Bel Cantos on the same bass.
Even the stark passiones were too soft and weak sounding for me.

Bel Cantos have a fat, warm sound which spreads nicely. I haven´t played an easier bowing string. And if you ever have played any Pirastro orchestra favourites like Flexocores or Permanents you will find Bel Cantos easy enough for both hands...

 

[LouisF]

Well, I guess I'm on the other side - I had Bel Cantos on the new carved Argentine bass and I thought they were just a bore, no character or focus. At first I thought it was the bass (always a possibility), then put on some Permanents, which were great, but a little too stiff for me, then went to the Passione starks.

They're easy under the left hand, great for the bow, warm, rich, very cantible/buttery (as said before), so I think they are just a very fine orchestra string - with plenty of volume.

Go figure.

Louis

 

[tomshepp]

I think I may have fallen into that black hole of string experimentation. Put on Bel Cantos and it seems to me that the E string has a brighter tone than the other three. I'll definitely give them time, it's just that I noticed it right away and thought..... maybe I should have got the Passiones....... or maybe Permanents....... or....

 

[LouisF]

I think it is a black hole, particularly with these three strings, as the result is (I think) very subject and dependent on the particular bass.

Louis

 

[eerbrev]

the problem I had with both the passiones and the bel cantos is volume and definition. I find that especially in a section capacity the darkness of these strings makes really good intonation an issue. They sound great when you're all alone in the practice room, but in my personal experience I find their sound does not really project in a hall, and their darkness makes intonation a big problem. Of course, I am not a professional, I am a university student, so take my opinion for how much you paid for it, as the saying goes, but that being said, I play in a situation where tuning can be a real issue, so that element comes out as a problem.

I currently have permanents on my bass, and I'm enjoying them quite a bit. they have a darkness to them without losing clarity. Of course, everyone's mileage may vary, but they seem to do the trick for me.

You're welcome in advance for confusing the discussion.

eerbrev

 

[LouisF]

Shoot me now! My experience was just the opposite - I am/was a big Permanent fan and (at least on this bass) they just sounded wooly. The Passione starks were clear - and seemed to have much less tension under the left hand, with any significant loss of volume.

OY

Louis

 

[eerbrev]

Shoot me now! My experience was just the opposite - I am/was a big Permanent fan and (at least on this bass) they just sounded wooly. The Passione starks were clear - and seemed to have much less tension under the left hand, with any significant loss of volume.

OY

Louis

why don't we make like jazz players and all put on spirocores and forget about it, eh?

cheers,

Alex

 

[LouisF]

Ah, come on! Where's your sense of.... er, maybe you have a point!

 

[CSU Bass]

On my bass, I really like the Passione G and D (the medium tension). IMO, I can get get a wider range of color out the G string especially, compared to the Bel Canto G. The A string didn't work on my bass at all though. Speaking of which, if anyone is looking to experiment, I'll sell you my Passione A string for $30. It was on my Pollmann for about 5 minutes, so as new as you can get without being officially "new." I would really like to try the stark gauge, at least on the A. Most of my students in the studio still use the Bel Canto, which are hard to move away from, as they are a great string. I definitely prefer the feel of the Passione though, even though I am still using my Bel Canto A. Ahh, the never ending string experiment...

 

[Francois Blais]

On my bass, I really like the Passione G and D (the medium tension). IMO, I can get get a wider range of color out the G string especially, compared to the Bel Canto G. The A string didn't work on my bass at all though. Speaking of which, if anyone is looking to experiment, I'll sell you my Passione A string for $30. It was on my Pollmann for about 5 minutes, so as new as you can get without being officially "new." I would really like to try the stark gauge, at least on the A. Most of my students in the studio still use the Bel Canto, which are hard to move away from, as they are a great string. I definitely prefer the feel of the Passione though, even though I am still using my Bel Canto A. Ahh, the never ending string experiment...

Ditto about the Belcanto G, which sounded dead to me.
Same thing with the Passione A.
I got a stark one, and it was also DOA...

 

[tomshepp]

So far, I like the BelCantos. The G and D are pretty much what I thought they would be. They have a better arco sound than the Evahs, especially going up into the higher positions. Very nice.

The A seems to have a little less power but the timbre matches the D and G. The E has a totally different timbre, much brighter than the others. Trying to get used to that. Still thinking about the Passiones or Permanents.

Ultimately, I think my bass may be better off with Evahs, but you never know unless you try. The $$ is a big factor in all this.

 

[eerbrev]

I'm using permanents right now. I really enjoy them.

 

[LouisF]

Just to add one more factor to the mix (don't hate me): these three strings are so close (Perms, Bels and Passione - and I would also add Jargars) as being great orchestra strings etc, that one thing I found as a factor/variant was the endpin I used with them.

On both the Upton and Argentine bass, a steel endpin was a better fit for the Bel Cantos. A carbon fiber shaft noticeably weakened the volume.

The Jargars and the Passione's did better with the carbon fiber than steel rod, but best with the Atomic wood/aluminum pin.

There may be some relationship between the composition of the string and that of the pin or it may just be my imagination... But I did want to throw that in. Generally, the Atomic (also KC Strings wood/cf pin, too) seems to make the strings feel as if they have less tension.

Louis

 

[Sol]

Comparing Evah Pirazzi, Bel Canto, and Passione Starks. On my bass, a high end Shen, I like the sound and playability of all these strings. There are some slight but noticeable differences. Please note that my favorite string judging purely by the sound is Flexocore (92). The modern strings have dramatically less tension which, as a part time player, I really appreciate. I play 99% arco. They all bow easily and generally sound full and clear. The Evahs have a full and resonant sound except in the higher registers, where they sound “nasally” and not as vibrant. For a while I used Evah E and A with Flexicore D and G to get the clear high register without the effort required for the low strings. This mix sounded and played nice but was of course rather uneven. The Bel Cantos are the clearest sounding of the bunch. I played the Bel Cantos for nearly two years until they went dead. Following Ken Smith’s impression of the Passione Starks as a likable string I got a set 5 months ago. First impressions were they seemed like a mix between Evah Pirazzi and Bel Canto, not as congested in the high register as EPs and not as clear and bell like as the BCs. What was remarkable was how rich they sound, what a fat fundamental! With time the high register has cleared and now sings nicely. Bowing is easy, tension is easy, and the sound has remained rich. For bell like clarity and very even tone I prefer the Bel Canto. For a rich palette of tone colors I prefer the Passione Starks and expect to stay with them, at least until the next new string comes along.

 

[tomshepp]

Thanks Sol, for your insightful response. Really, thanks to all who continue this discussion. Turns out the E string from the new BelCanto set is actually a Spirocore in disguise. I swapped it for a real BeCanto E and it matches the others much better.

I will at some point continue looking at other sets, but for now, I like the BelCantos.

 

[abaguer]

I've had Belcantos on my orchestra bass for last year. Very clear sounding strings that also were dark. Great orchestra strings. Just recently my tailgut broke and soundpost fell out. When I got bass back from luthier soundpost was repositioned and sound was brighter than before (not necessarily a bad thing). After playing the bass over the last month and a half I've come to dislike the Belcanto G with the new post position. It's too bright (but I like the increased volume and clarity on the other strings). While my bass was being repaired I used my Upton Hawkes hybrid for orchestra with Evahs on it. While I didn't like the higher register as much as Belcantos, I liked the pillowy, full bottom of the Evahs. The principal also had Evahs on his old German bass and I really liked his sound as well.

I decided to try the Passione mediums and have them strung on my bass now. First impressions: G string not as bright as belcanto. Sounds nicer for pizz as well. Didn't like Passione E string so put Belcanto E back on. Easier strings on the fingers with nice mix of sound between Belcantos and Evahs. The Passiones sound closer to the Belcantos than the Evahs, feelwise they're not as loose as I expected from some comments. Will give more detailed account after I play some rehs and gigs in coming weeks.

 

[luisraulmunoz]

I am a classical player so I play arco mostly, I have been trying the passione medium on my bass for the past month and a half. Very nice color, on this bass they sound dark and round. Yesterday changed the E and A installing bel cantos. Very big difference! The belcantos A and E seem to have less tension (though they are thicker in diameter), they feel softer and more open the bass resonates more in all registers and is louder overall with this combination. Even the wolf tone on the (the A on the A string) has mostly dissapeared. Certainly my bass was suffering from too much tension and this has helped though I never expected the belcanto lower strings to be less tense than the passiones...
I have the belcanto G and D but still have not installed, in my experience with other basses previously the G and D strings are considerably more tense than teh E and A and I definitively dont want more tension on the bass right now plus with the passione G and D I get a very dark overall sound that I like when mixed with bel canto bottom strings...
Though I am curious to try the set as a whole...I will probably end up installing them by the end of the day...
Does anyone has an opinion on the comparable tension between passione and belcanto G and D strings or the set as a whole?