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Berry Oakley: Why Doesn't He Get More Respect

#21
JimK said:
The new issue of Bass Player (Esperanza Spaulding cover) has a transcription of "Melissa".
Oteil Burbridge also offers up some insight on Oakley's playing style.

Wow, Oakley was only 23 when he died?!?
He was killin' in that band!
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I think Duane was only 24 when he died.
 
#22
I had lunch a few weeks ago at the H&H in downtown Macon. That's an incredible place to go if you are an ABB fan. There's a lot of ABB memorabilia on the walls. I always liked this painting there of Duane and Berry.
 

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#24
Always loved Berry's playing!! Started listening to The Allman's back in the early 70's.{ I guess I just dated myself!!]. He was the "third guitar player" as he was sometimes called, but also held the bottom together so great!! He was gone way too young!! RIP Berry!!
 
#25
like vettfingers I too started listening to ABB in the early 70s and was always blown away by Berry's playing as well as his tone.

These days I sub in an ABB tribute/cover band so I have a chance to shamelessly attempt to channel at least Berry's spirit and approach.

In fact I enjoy it so much I wound up buying an MIM J and getting a GK800RB to feed a couple of JBL D140Fs in a modded Showman cab just to get as close to the sound as I can.

So yes, lots of respect from here on the Left Coast :bassist:
 
#26
Berry Oakley, Jack Casady and Phil Lesh were the big ones for me when I first "heard" the bass. I was 12, it was 1973. I was so bummed to find out I would never see him live. Interestingly, they all had a relationship to Guild Starfire basses. Berry moved to the Fender, but kept the pickups.
 
#28
martinmcfly said:
People say that Jaco was the breakthrough in Bass being a, 'Stand Alone' Instrument, but I think Berry's innovation easily rivals anything Jaco has innovated (and I love Jaco).
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You're more than welcome to your opinion, of course. But I don't see how you can compare Berry Oakley to Jaco Pastorious - on anything more than the most superficial level. Anything beyond that simply makes no sense:

One was a groove player rooted in the blues. The other a jazz player and consummate soloist.

Taking nothing away from Berry. But the comparison simply doesn't work in any way... :hmm:

MM
 
#29
MysticMichael said:
You're more than welcome to your opinion, of course. But I don't see how you can compare Berry Oakley to Jaco Pastorious - on anything more than the most superficial level. Anything beyond that simply makes no sense:

One was a groove player rooted in the blues. The other a jazz player and consummate soloist.

Taking nothing away from Berry. But the comparison simply doesn't work in any way... :hmm:

MM
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Well, overall I have to agree but I don't really limit Berry to being a groove player. He had a really strong melodic sense that went way beyond what most bass players were doing at the time. He was also not averse to soloing and for the time and genre, pretty consummate at that.

I was fortunate enough to see Jaco a few times, but since I didn't see Berry, I can't really make a definitive judgment.
 
#30
I'm with the other poster on here that respects Berry's playing but never really got into the band.

The first big-time cover band I was in, we played 5 or 6 Allman Bros songs every show (the guitarist / leader was a huge fan) and that kind of burned me out on them. I also saw them live a couple times and it was pretty meh outside of the guitar tones which were outstanding. The two drummers thing always threw me a bit. The bass lines are fun enough to play but so much of their stuff is just a two-guitar wankfest. I guess I just like more space in my music and with the Allman Bros. there's not a lot of that.
 
#32
MysticMichael said:
You're more than welcome to your opinion, of course. But I don't see how you can compare Berry Oakley to Jaco Pastorious - on anything more than the most superficial level. Anything beyond that simply makes no sense:

One was a groove player rooted in the blues. The other a jazz player and consummate soloist.

Taking nothing away from Berry. But the comparison simply doesn't work in any way... :hmm:

MM
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While I agree that Jaco Pastorius (correct spelling) redefined the instrument, while Oakley was "merely" a superb player, your characterization of him as a groove player is a bit of a head-scratcher. :hmm:
At the time, he absolutely fell into the camp of "busy" or "guitarist-like" bass players. Actually, I believe he was a jazz guitarist before he took up the bass. Mind you, he COULD play standard blues grooves, too. Plus, his studio work with the Allmans shows that he could compose thoughtful, original parts and approach "record making" like a studio pro. So-- not merely a simple, groove guy, but also not merely a wild, psychedelic jammer. His taste and versatility contributed to his greatness.
 
#33
Well, I think we may be getting into semantics here...semantics, implications and inferences, that is... :hmm:

Ed & Doug may sense that I've subtly put Berry down - or at the least compartmentalized him - by my characterization of him as a "groove player". Such was by no means my intent.

While others may have a different take on the term, in my book being a groove player does not in any way preclude also being an accomplished composer/arranger, studio cat, melodic player, tastemaker...or any of Berry's other skills & attributes.

The bottom line is that Berry found his greatest success in the context of a six-piece blues/rock band (with two drummers & two guitarists :eek:), which role compelled him to focus his attentions - virtually at all times - upon laying down the low end and the groove.

Jaco, by contrast, was something of a showboating soloist in a four-piece jazz band - with only one drummer and no guitarists - in which he enjoyed a wide degree of latitude to roam where he pleased, musically speaking. He was kind of a gadfly, flitting from one project to another - including session work, recording/touring with various other artists, and so on.

Notwithstanding Jaco's ability to lay down the groove, I doubt he would have been able to fit into the Allman Brothers Band any better than Berry would have been able to fit into Weather Report. :hmm:

MM
 
#34
MysticMichael said:
Notwithstanding Jaco's ability to lay down the groove, I doubt he would have been able to fit into the Allman Brothers Band any better than Berry would have been able to fit into Weather Report. :hmm:

MM
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You know, I used to make prognostications like this, but have since learned not to make assumptions. I would have never thought Oteil would have been a good match for the ABB back when I used to just know him from the Aquarium Rescue Unit. Nor did I ever possibly imagine seeing Col. Bruce Hampton and Paul McCandless play together. Jerry Garcia with Ornette? Who knew? While Berry with WR might have been a stretch, I'm sure Jaco could have played with the ABB. Hell, he did time in all those R&B bands and grew up not far from the ABB scene and if the ABB had caught him when he was sober and dedicated to his family, he would have focused and done a great job.


Music is a language and just because people have strengths and certain accents doesn't mean that people don't get to communicate across cultural and language differences.
 
#39
edwinhurwitz said:
You know, I used to make prognostications like this, but have since learned not to make assumptions. I would have never thought Oteil would have been a good match for the ABB back when I used to just know him from the Aquarium Rescue Unit. Nor did I ever possibly imagine seeing Col. Bruce Hampton and Paul McCandless play together. Jerry Garcia with Ornette? Who knew? While Berry with WR might have been a stretch, I'm sure Jaco could have played with the ABB. Hell, he did time in all those R&B bands and grew up not far from the ABB scene and if the ABB had caught him when he was sober and dedicated to his family, he would have focused and done a great job.


Music is a language and just because people have strengths and certain accents doesn't mean that people don't get to communicate across cultural and language differences.
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Good point.
I just want to say that I think more folks need to listen to the Allmans' Fillmore East album, because if they hold the common misconception that the Allmans with Duane and Berry were merely a slightly classier Lynyrd Skynyrd or Marshall Tucker Band, they will be surprised by the very large jazz component. One of Berry's strengths was his ability to improvise counter melodies and counterpoint, and I think the collective improvisation of the band made them closer relatives to Weather Report than you might think.
I was lucky enough to see the Allmans twice with Duane and Berry, and Weather Report once with Jaco. (And I knew Jaco a bit, and saw him in other situations, including the trio with Metheny and Bob Moses.) Not that it matters, but the original Allman Brothers have always moved me immensely, while Weather Report has impressed me and entertained me, but never moved me that much.
 

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