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Best size amp for auditorium setting?

I've seen a guy use a 100w Polytone with his upright in a full big band. I have used a 200w Trace Elliot combo in the same situation with another big band, and it was definitely plenty. On the other hand, I have used a Workingman's 12 (100w) in a large auditorium with a five-piece electric band, and it was just barely enough. But, that's a different situation. Then, I have sat with the Stan Kenton Orchestra in a band room while the bassist played electric through something like a 115 and about 100-150w (I'm guessing, it was years ago, but it wasn't an rig that was monstrous). Talk about wind! You can't imagine what that band sounded like from about twenty feet out. I didn't get to talk to the bass guy, but did hang with Stan the Man for quite awhile.

75w Rumble will get you started. I think it'll do better than you expect.
 
I'd personally want a little more power. My school previously had a Peavey TNT 115 but after years of use, found an Ampeg B2 combo. I think the Ampeg combo is 200 watts (correct me if i'm wrong) and it is one of the finest combos ever made. If you could find one of these used in your area, i'd personally get it in a heartbeat because it works great for small clubs outside of school as well.
 
When the Kenosha Band Boosters puts on a concert for our Middle and High Schools, it is always in an auditorium at one of the schools. 75 to 100 watts for the bass in a jazz band or even concert band is just fine. Since I am a gear nut, I would really suggest a SWR Strawberry Blonde or something similar. Great tone, easy to use and they sound fantastic. However, your Rumble will fit the bill just fine. If the amp sounds good for you when you practice with the band, it will sound even better in the auditoriums where sound is meant to travel and those rooms are designed for acoustics
 
I totally agree with Jimmy and the other posters who are emphasizing the importance of good musical values over spec lust.

I started playing bass in high school big band on an old blonde Kay upright with no amplification. One show we did was in a 1200 seat college auditorium and I still didn't get a mike. You learn from these experiences things you cannot imagine.

When I got my first Jazz bass I got an open cabinet Gretsch combo which was a single 15 as I recall and about 40 watts. The band leader had to work hard to keep me in check with my new found power. Even in the school auditorium I could still overpower the band dynamic with that gear. It was a wonderful feeling to be heard so easily after fighting an upright.

The next year I got my Sunn D140 head (same 100 or so watt design as an S200) and a single folded horn sealed JBL D-140 15" Sunn cab. I don't recall ever getting the volume knob over about 3 or barely to 4 in a full big band setting.

A couple years later playing out professionally with a fully decked out B S, & T style 8 or 9 piece group, I added a second matching 15 cab, never got PA support, and still was able to drive the band with authority in any setting we played in. I attribute that in part to the Fender Jazz sound, no doubt, but that rig rocked.

Patience, grasshopper. You will be heard.

iJazz
 
Well, I just played a 700-seat auditorium last Thursday with my Little Mark III head and Traveler 151P cab. That's 300w with a 115 cab, but I barely had to turn it up (gain at 1:30, as usual, but master at only 9:00). This was with an electric band (unmiked drums, guitar and keys, all unmiked) plus a chorus. FOH man said the bass was fine.
 
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I played about a year and a half/two years in my old school's big band, the director was a deaf and old freejazz drummer, hence instead of going from ppp to fff, this band went from p to fffff. I never had to use anything more than a crappy nemesis 100watt(I think) 2x12 combo cranked at MAX 3/4 volume. Even when we played the MTL Jazz Fest (big stage in front maybe 2000), the backline amp was a trace head with a 15 and no one even needed me in monitors, you simply won't play in their frequencies thus you'll be heard no matter what, unless playing a part in unison with a tuba.. At least I think that's right someone correct me if I'm wrong..
 
Part of me wants to be ridiculous and say 500+ watts and go for an 810...
But I think the 75 watt combo should be just fine. I saw the bassist in my brothers jazz group get away with an 8-inch lunchbox amp, during warm-up he was too loud!
 
Part of me wants to be ridiculous and say 500+ watts and go for an 810...
But I think the 75 watt combo should be just fine. I saw the bassist in my brothers jazz group get away with an 8-inch lunchbox amp, during warm-up he was too loud!

Not ridiculous at all.

Unless one is forever gonna play closed auditoriums and phone booths, then a 20Watt 6" driver is all you need.

At 500+ Watts, one can always just turn down the loudness with a little thing called a volume knob.

Never take a Swiss Army Knife to a gun fight.
 
You gotta keep it small in stature for more reasons than that. Going to jazz competitions, rolling out any kind of stack is offensive to judges.

Played through a GK Backline 112 and a GK MB115 combo. The 115 fills the gym at less than 50% power easily and the backline was fine also - for the 18 piece adult jazz group. Its really a matter of tone.

35 years ago in your same situation, used a Bassman 50 tube.

More than enough power to overcome the combined horns, but high school drummers are almost always out of control volume wise and can overwhelm any brass section.

You want your amp settings CLEAN, stay away from any boost or gain settings that add compression or growl. Fairly flat on the tone settings, depending on your rig. When I crank the wrong knobs on my GK, the compression kicks in. When I use the master volume (for clean) I can fill rooms. I also have a the 410, that if compressed, isn't effective either - part of why some guys need so much more power.

I have recently sat on the audience side of an adult 18 piece that had both electrified guitar and keys, URB through a GK MB115 that was beautiful with enough volume.

Bottom line - practice in the situation and ask the teacher if he hears enough bass - he is the boss.
 
Growing up as a musician is all about maximizing the gear you've already got. Learning to squeeze every bit of capability out of your gear doesn't happen if you buy ahead of demand. Rather than anticipating a problem, you have to at least rehearse with the band a bit to see how it sounds.

In my past I recall having to step up to the next level of gear once or twice. The determining factor wasn't purely about volume, it was about tone. Most any practice amp sounds just fine in a bedroom at low volume. However, underpowered gear can be very challenging in terms of finding a good tone at loud volumes. Trust your instructor to let you know if it is loud enough. Trust your ears to tell you if it still sounds good at volume.

When I'm early on in a long pursuit, I like to give myself milestones and achievements to shoot for. Perhaps a new bass amp sometime down the road is a reward for completing a year of band and good grades, or maybe placing well at competition. Delayed gratification. Motivation. Setting goals. Making do with what you've got. All great skills to add to your musical talents.

As a side bonus, if you decide to get an amp and give yourself months instead of days leading up to the decision, you will invariably make a better choice by doing more research, testing more amps out for yourself, and avoiding an impulse purchase.
 
I play with a 16 piece jazz band with drums and piano.

I had a 50W tube amp and used it at rehearsals with a 2x10. Everything was fine, but come the (outdoor) gigs it was underpowered only because the band hit a new gear in performance which was never revealed in rehearsals. My amp was the only monitor for bass, mic'd up for PA.

Indoors with plenty of cabinet I would agree that 100W is enough.
 
Growing up as a musician is all about maximizing the gear you've already got. Learning to squeeze every bit of capability out of your gear doesn't happen if you buy ahead of demand. Rather than anticipating a problem, you have to at least rehearse with the band a bit to see how it sounds.

In my past I recall having to step up to the next level of gear once or twice. The determining factor wasn't purely about volume, it was about tone. Most any practice amp sounds just fine in a bedroom at low volume. However, underpowered gear can be very challenging in terms of finding a good tone at loud volumes. Trust your instructor to let you know if it is loud enough. Trust your ears to tell you if it still sounds good at volume.

When I'm early on in a long pursuit, I like to give myself milestones and achievements to shoot for. Perhaps a new bass amp sometime down the road is a reward for completing a year of band and good grades, or maybe placing well at competition. Delayed gratification. Motivation. Setting goals. Making do with what you've got. All great skills to add to your musical talents.

As a side bonus, if you decide to get an amp and give yourself months instead of days leading up to the decision, you will invariably make a better choice by doing more research, testing more amps out for yourself, and avoiding an impulse purchase.

I humbly (and totally) disagree. It's not creative, expressive nor is it a right-of-passage to play on junk when one should be working on learning and improving one's playing ability.

Start with a toy amp and one cannot get anything closely resembling quality and anything resembling capacity out of it. That's called 'headroom' and it's frustrating to be held back by the stigma of cheap and powerless.

If one buys big - as big as one can afford - then one has a piece of equipment that will hang in as one grows in ability and prowess. Of course, research a lot before one plunks down greenbacks - but don't buy with the idea that one will upgrade later on.

I came back to playing after a 47+ year hiatus and went to 600 Watts as first purchase. Why? Because it's capable --- more capable than I was then and possibly still now.

I see all sorts of requests for 'what should I buy now that my 15 Watt, 8-inch amp sux' posted here on TB when one finds one has outgrown one's (toy) amp'. That's a frustrating waste of money IMO.

Why cripple oneself with inferior gear in the first place?

Do one's basic research - decide what type of music one wants to play and buy according to the style: bright 'modern' gear for slapping and - dare I say it: 'metal'.

Buy mellower, old-school gear for that Motown and pre-Beatles sound.

Of course, gear can cross over in all sorts of musical styles (is it really in the fingers as some say?) and EQ'ing is the rage too - so there's that to consider.

Pedals (stomps) and accessories will also move one's sound/amp/bass to new avenues too.

In the end - a cheap tiny toy amp is still a cheap tiny toy amp - one that will need to be upgraded anyway, sooner than later. (Something about turd-polishing, I believe.)
 
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SurferJoe46 said:
I humbly (and totally) disagree. It's not creative, expressive nor is it a right-of-passage to play on junk when one should be working on learning and improving one's playing ability.

Start with a toy amp and one cannot get anything closely resembling quality and anything resembling capacity out of it. That's called 'headroom' and it's frustrating to be held back by the stigma of cheap and powerless.

If one buys big - as big as one can afford - then one has a piece of equipment that will hang in as one grows in ability and prowess. Of course, research a lot before one plunks down greenbacks - but don't buy with the idea that one will upgrade later on.

I came back to playing after a 47+ year hiatus and went to 600 Watts as first purchase. Why? Because it's capable --- more capable than I was then and possibly still now.

I see all sorts of requests for 'what should I buy now that my 15 Watt, 8-inch amp sux' posted here on TB when one finds one has outgrown one's (toy) amp'. That's a frustrating waste of money IMO.

Why cripple oneself with inferior gear in the first place?

Do one's basic research - decide what type of music one wants to play and buy according to the style: bright 'modern' gear for slapping and - dare I say it: 'metal'.

Buy mellower, old-school gear for that Motown and pre-Beatles sound.

Of course, gear can cross over in all sorts of musical styles (is it really in the fingers as some say?) and EQ'ing is the rage too - so there's that to consider.

Pedals (stomps) and accessories will also move one's sound/amp/bass to new avenues too.

In the end - a cheap tiny toy amp is still a cheap tiny toy amp - one that will need to be upgraded anyway, sooner than later. (Something about turd-polishing, I believe.)

I did not pass judgment on his current amp. I told him to let his ears decide if the tone was acceptable at volume.

Learning how to get the best out of anything is a skill worth learning. If after one week the OP knows that his amp won't cut it then that's fine.

Disagree all you want. Money can fix a lot of problems when it is employed by someone who has experience solving problems. I don't presume to know to what degree you or the OP posses that capacity. But I did presume that in high school money doesn't grow on trees and options need to be considered and balanced against each other. The more options on the table the better. Buying a new amp was already on the table. Your contribution was what? To take all other options off the table?
 
JimmyM, I read your posts all the time, and I think you're a very experienced and knowledgeable guy. However, I don't see how the OP will be able to even be heard with a 75 watt amp when you consider that he might be playing with: "trumpets, trombones, tenor saxes, possibly a guitarist, a drummer, and random percussion equipment"

It's true, like Greenboy said, that some of the lower frequency range of the bass won't be in contention with all those instruments. But don't you think that with <100 watts all the midrange and treble (and some bass freqs.) of his bass will get drowned out by multiple brass players, one woodwind, a guitarist, other percussion instruments AND drums!???

I'm not JimmyM, but I am a trumpet player. the answer is YES. Highschool acoustic jazz band? Maybe in the Count Basie band (who were loud because they were awesome, played together and swung hard) you'd need more, but really not. I don't think people realize just how loud rock bands are in comparison to big-band jazz groups. For YEARS un-amplified acoustic bass was considered adequate.

Playing trumpet in a rock band (with amplified acoustic guitar and Hammond organ), I had my Ampeg BA115 as my own monitor in front tilted right at me, and I could still feel the beat coming back at me through the bell just from stage volume! Playing without my own monitor was like I wasn't there, couldn't be heard at all.
The mind adjusts...like with house plants...people don't realize that indoor light can be 10,000 times dimmer than outdoor light (where plants are raised in Fla under cheese cloth), so they put the new plant in the middle of a room and wonder why they die...
 
Your contribution was what? To take all other options off the table?

No - to keep the frustration level to a minimum; to keep someone from feeling the frustration and crippling inability of their instrument to sound as good as they are capable of playing it.

Unless one has an ulterior motive, and, say - sells crappola amplifiers as a business - the selling of such a toy to an aspiring bassist will either:::

1) so thoroughly anger the person who buys the piece of junk that they hate the bass
2) make lauding cheap gear sound as though any inadequacies must be the player's, not the gear since one has said they in are a learning curve and should make appropriate 'compensations'. Rat's anus!

One would not put junk into their body for food - why tell them to buy junk gear and then put the onus on the player to 'compensate' for it? That's just perverted IMO.
 
SurferJoe46 said:
No - to keep the frustration level to a minimum; to keep someone from feeling the frustration and crippling inability of their instrument to sound as good as they are capable of playing it.

Unless one has an ulterior motive, and, say - sells crappola amplifiers as a business - the selling of such a toy to an aspiring bassist will either:::

1) so thoroughly anger the person who buys the piece of junk that they hate the bass
2) make lauding cheap gear sound as though any inadequacies must be the player's, not the gear since one has said they in are a learning curve and should make appropriate 'compensations'. Rat's anus!

One would not put junk into their body for food - why tell them to buy junk gear and then put the onus on the player to 'compensate' for it? That's just perverted IMO.

We agree that if it's junk it should be replaced. How you twisted about four other character building principles into junk food is masterful.

I haven't heard the bass amp in question in the context of a high school jazz band. I do recall that in my own distant past that the amp I used in 8th grade and HS jazz band was woefully underpowered for gigging in a rock band, but was more than enough for jazz band.

I do not disagree with your conclusions. I just think you jumped to them over an important qualifying question.
 
I was in a similar situation in college. I pretty much wasn't happy until I bought a used trace Elliot 300 watt head and a genzbenz 115 cab. That's all I could afford at the time, but the extra headroom from the head was great at the time. I went from the only people in the band that could hear me were the rhythm section to getting compliments from the director about my playing. "you sound like a different player, and really good." I was like, I'm playing the same way but now I'm heard and I can afford to be more dynamic, and therefore, more expressive, rather than just having my amp dimed and distorting, just to hear myself.
 
Playing in the high school band is not about cutting through in the same way you would need to in a rock band. Think big band jazz for a minute. It's not like the bass is out there in front dominating the mix. Those players in your vicinity need to hear themselves and they don't need a massive bass rig behind them making it hard to do so. My guess is that the amp you have is plenty given you find a nice frequency band to sit in that isn't too low. Place like school gyms are going to be boom city if you have the deep lows cranked up. I'm not sure where the EQ points on your amp are, but might want to look into something like a small EQ pedal. Try bumping up 100Hz a bit and somewhere around 250Hz to 400Hz just a little see if that doesn't bring out your place in the mix better. Remember, being heard isn't always about volume, your tone is just as important, if not more.

If you find that you still can't be heard, then by all means look at another rig setup. My suggestion would be a good 210 or 112 combo, with 300 watts. I heard the new Genz-Benz Contour at NAMM and it was quite impressive. Also GK, Carvin and Ampeg all make really good, inexpensive combo's.
 

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