Double Bass 'Best' strings for c.1900 carved flatback?

[Richard Simon]

Whereas,
every bass is different;
every player is different;
regions of the planet are different -
Nonetheless,
If a century-old carved flatback could talk,
And it is set up for jazz with strings at medium height,
What strings would the bass prefer -
- in terms of healthy tension, and the maximal production of sound?

I've been told that Thomastik Solo strings, tuned to E, A, D and G, were used by Al McKibbon and Ray Brown towards the end of their playing careers.
Of course, each had exceptional, old instruments - and enviable, exceptional hands.

What about Weich gauge - better than Solo for 80% pizz and the rest arco - or not?

Or, are Gut strings going to make a century-old bass the happiest, since Gut was all they used when the basses were being built?

I can't afford to buy set after set of strings. I just ordered a set of Spiro Mediums, and might keep the E an A and exchange the others for the most bass-friendly D and G.

Thank you.

 

[Francois Blais]

The bass will tell you what she prefers, but that involve several experiments I'm afraid...

 

[Richard Simon]

Francois,
Helas, Those very 'experiments' are what I'd hope to avoid.
When I received the bass it was sporting Thomastik's Weichs, but they didn't sound fresh. For my first 'experiment' I replaced G and D with lightly-used Pirastro Perpetuals, and there's an improvement in the volume and articulation. Are they too tense for the comfort zone of this bass? I don't know.

 

[Francois Blais]

I'm afraid I can't help with the mechanical details of an older carved bass. (resistance to tension, etc.)
But usually, the bass will resonate more when the proper tension is reached. (not choked)
So you can play with tuning/detuning to see how it goes with resonance.

 

[Richard Simon]

Verily,
There have been extensive repairs to the neck and the back, so the Tension issue requires serious attention.
Having been less than thrilled with Evah Pirazzi (on another bass), I guess I'll try Thomastik Solos on the two upper strings and mediums below for starters.
Thanks for all the input.

 

[shwashwa]

Gut

 

[Don Kasper]

Verily,
There have been extensive repairs to the neck and the back, so the Tension issue requires serious attention.
Having been less than thrilled with Evah Pirazzi (on another bass), I guess I'll try Thomastik Solos on the two upper strings and mediums below for starters.
Thanks for all the input.

I'm curious to hear if the tension differences between the D & G Solos and the E & A Spiro Mittels will be noticeable/drastic/marginal/etc.?
Thanks.

 

[Richard Simon]

In re: tension on the top:
Is there a recommended Afterlength of the strings between Bridge and Tailpiece?
The setup here has 6.5" (with a tailpiece that's 13.5" long).
Time to visit the luthier, methinks.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

If you have a complete set, detune down the two upper strings a whole tone. That's what you get with Solos and Mittel below. I won't recommend that.
Have a look at tension data in my excel file in my Dropbox. Link in signature and string sticky.

 

[Richard Simon]

De tuning the G and D a whole step seems to agree with the bass. There's not as much Ping or Definition at the beginning of the note, but the tone seems richer.
The question is would I want Solos on all 4 strings...?
Would be interested in looking at your Tension spreadsheet, but haven't a clue how to get there.

 

[Francois Blais]

Maybe weichs on the bottom instead of mediums?
My first thought was for Obligatos.

 

[Richard Simon]

Weichs on the bottom seems like a good plan
Tried Obligatos a while ago on another bass and didn't like them.

 

[Francois Blais]

Tried Obligatos a while ago on another bass and didn't like them.

If you still have the set, it may be a good idea to they them on that bass. Just a suggestion of course.

 

[Richard Simon]

Probably passed them along to someone who liked them.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

I just ordered a set of Spiro Mediums

Good choice. Nuff said.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Whereas,
every bass is different;
every player is different;
regions of the planet are different -
Nonetheless,
If a century-old carved flatback could talk,
And it is set up for jazz with strings at medium height,
What strings would the bass prefer -
- in terms of healthy tension, and the maximal production of sound?

I've been told that Thomastik Solo strings, tuned to E, A, D and G, were used by Al McKibbon and Ray Brown towards the end of their playing careers.
Of course, each had exceptional, old instruments - and enviable, exceptional hands.

What about Weich gauge - better than Solo for 80% pizz and the rest arco - or not?

Or, are Gut strings going to make a century-old bass the happiest, since Gut was all they used when the basses were being built?

I can't afford to buy set after set of strings. I just ordered a set of Spiro Mediums, and might keep the E an A and exchange the others for the most bass-friendly D and G.

Thank you.

Hi Richard. Maybe try some type of Weich string for the E and A (maybe EP Weichs?) and I think for the D and G try out an Oliv D and G. They sound wonderful for everything - bow and pizz especially. I've messed around on an old carved bass with a full set of Olivs on it and it sounded great. I use them on my Kay and if they can make a plywood bass sound good then imagine what they can do for a lovely old bass like yours.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

De tuning the G and D a whole step seems to agree with the bass. There's not as much Ping or Definition at the beginning of the note, but the tone seems richer.
The question is would I want Solos on all 4 strings...?
Would be interested in looking at your Tension spreadsheet, but haven't a clue how to get there.

A string with lower tension sinks down more under the bow which results in a smaller bowing angle before touching a neighbor string. Check that with a downtuned string.
The signature is only visible when using a computer, not when using a mobile device. There are some sticky messages at the top of each forum. It's quite obvious which one to check. If not, there are just a few and it's not very time consuming to find the only post with my name there. Everybody else was able to find it. The link is also present in a lot of my other postings, but I got bored to post it again and again because people were lazy.

There is also tension data for downtuned solo strings, so you can check if the tension drop might be too drastic compared to the relative tension of strings in a normal set.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

There is a school of thought that those basses were designed for gut and aren't up to the tension of steels. It's not so much that the tops will sink but that there may be a slight deflection around the bridge and soundpost area which may cause wolf tones and/or other gremlins. Bill Merchant is in this camp and will graft in wood to thicken the top of such basses.
That said, I believe this is anecdotal at best and have worked on old flat backs that were tanks and seen newer instruments with thin tops which deformed after just a few years, strung with low tension steels.
As Francois posted, the bass will tell you. As a general rule, give the bass as much tension as it and you can handle but at some point it and you will choke out. Often, low tension will give the most volume and make you both happy.

 

[james condino]

Buying a bass and trying to make it sound the way you want with different strings is an interesting approach.

I tend to go the opposite:

I like & have been using Spiro mediums for so long that I tend to always string up basses with those and gravitate to the one(s) that sound best with them. I hate the string game, so a Spiro positive bass means I effectively solved the problem of buying new ones...

 

[Sam Dingle]

you gotta experiment, no way around it. start with spiros. I say throw the medium full set on, and give it 6 months, if youre happy good you found the string, if not find a set of spiro weich. throw the whole set on, if you like that more then great, if not maybe try medium E with weich ADG.

Spiro mediums are a standard for pizz playing for a reason. hopefully that'll be it for you.