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Bi-amping, guitar head, p.a. speakers...

#21
Seems to me that if you roll off the bass on the treble unit and roll off the treble on the bass unit you're creating a simplistic crossover anyway. I'd experiment with being very aggressive on the tone system and see where that got me.
A crossover and/or a HPF is obviously going to be more controllable, but there seems no reason why, given the OPs genre, he shouldn't get something he finds satisfactory. I can see there might be advantages in the mids being reproduced in both systems, even though there are plenty of obvious disadvantages.
 
#22
You've rolled the bass off to the 2x12, which is what I'd have intuitively thought might get you by. The typical bass eq control on a guitar amp is around 50-60 hz. You might roll off some mid bass from your bass amp, if there's an unnatural hump there where the amps overlap. Or just keep working the eq on both amps till you get balance, with acceptable lead tones. If you want to geek out, you could do a sine sweep starting at 31/41 hz thru say 1000 hz, note the peaks, and go back and try to eq to a flat line. Its possible to get both a tone generator and a spectra analyzer app free for a lap top or phone. You may find its pretty difficult to get a flat line, with tone controls being highly interactive on most guitar amps. Or maybe you don't need a flat response.

Another way to leverage your idea, may be to go to a true bi-amp rig with an assignable effects loop, and put a dirt pedal on the high cab.

If multi-amping just two amps from the same bass signal present a balance and phasing challenge, just imagine having a bass, TWO guitarists, and a keyboard all trying to share the same sonic space, without the same issues. Its even worse, if they are all mic'd or DI'd, trying to go thru the same PA, lol. No wonder we have runaway volume wars...
 
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#23
Aidenn7 said:
If you wanna run the rig.. Do a crossover.. Rolls makes a cheap one.
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Rolls SX21 mini crossover. They used to be a lot cheaper but just the ticket for sure. FX loop out to Rolls, lows returned to FX return, highs can go back in the front end of the tube amp as hot as you like.

Having done the split you may get a sense there is a little something missing from the big bottom + roar. That will likely be a phase difference between the amps that cancels out in the crossover region. Playing about with the crossover frequency will change the dip point. Rewiring one cab by flipping + to - should take care of a good bit of it.
 
#24
Downunderwonder said:
Rolls SX21 mini crossover. They used to be a lot cheaper but just the ticket for sure. FX loop out to Rolls, lows returned to FX return, highs can go back in the front end of the tube amp as hot as you like.

Having done the split you may get a sense there is a little something missing from the big bottom + roar. That will likely be a phase difference between the amps that cancels out in the crossover region. Playing about with the crossover frequency will change the dip point. Rewiring one cab by flipping + to - should take care of a good bit of it.
Click to expand...

Radial AB stuff has a phase inversion switch, my Lelih stuff does too
 
#26
Aidenn7 said:
Radial AB stuff has a phase inversion switch, my Lelih stuff does too
Click to expand...
That's a POLARITY inversion switch. If polarity is the problem, this could help. If phase is the problem, it probably won't do anything beneficial. A lot of analog PA crossovers--the Rane AC series comes to mind--have delay capabilities that allow adjustment of the phase relationship between two pass bands. Those things are dirt cheap in the used market...I've sold stacks (literally) of 'em that worked fine for $10-20...Behringers, Ranes and Ashleys.
 
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#27
Redbrangus said:
That's a POLARITY inversion switch. If polarity is the problem, this could help. If phase is the problem, it probably won't do anything beneficial. A lot of analog PA crossovers--the Rane AC series comes to mind--have delay capabilities that allow adjustment of the phase relationship between two pass bands. Those things are dirt cheap in the used market...I've sold stacks (literally) of 'em that worked fine for $10-20...Behringers, Ranes and Ashleys.
Click to expand...
Phase out at 180deg is polarity inverted. Fortunately most distortions indeed produce either close to the same or close enough to 180deg that mere polarity inversion does the trick.
 
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#28
AngryHammer said:
So, here is what im thinking ive got an empty open back 2x12, i want to find some full range p.a. speakers to put in it for my overdrive.

I play metal and punk, right now i am bi-amping my rig with a bass tube head running to a 4x10 for my low end and a 100 watt guitar head into a 15 inch black widow for my overdrive. The black widow is a bass speaker and doesn't sound killer with the guitar head, but i don't want to put guitar speakers in because i don't want them to get blown from the bass frequencies. Thats where the full range p.a. speakers come in.

What do y'all think? Go ahead, smash my dreams.
Click to expand...

I used to use a 1-12 Fender guitar combo amp ( built in effects) and various bass amps to “bi-amp” my 6 string bass.
Your idea will work, but finding a used guitar amp will save you time and money and probably yield better results since you can try out the amp before you buy.
 
#29
AngryHammer said:
Why buy one amp over another? or one bass over another?

I like the way it sounds this way, I've got three overdrive pedals sometime I use one for a boost for soloing but overall they just knock out too much low end. I like sound of overdriven power tubes. Why would you assume its a preconceived notion? I've played though a number of different amps, cabs and pedals, and this is the sound I like best so far, (I'm looking for a substitute speaker set up for the 412 so I don't have to carry it.) Maybe all you need is a drive/distortion pedal, but I like weird junk.
Click to expand...
Okay
 
#31
I dont currently have any volume issues, indicating i dont have any phase or polarity issues. Im just looking for the right kind of cab for the guitar head, my last 2x12 did have volume isssues but my black widow does not, the tone just isnt as full as on my 4x12, which also works without issue but is just heavy. Im looking for a suitable 2x12.
 

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