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Double Bass big sound

#4
I don't have enough experience with guts but the Evahs (regular or weich) sound huge, at least on the basses on which I've played 'em. IMO, IME, YMMV.
 
#6
guroove said:
What's your definition of 'big sound?' Some consider steels with a deep bottom to be 'big' sounding. I find it kind of thin. It has less to do with the strings than anything else, IMO.
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+1

The sound is definitley i ones hands, and the definition is different for each person. But for ME, to get a big sound out of MY bass with MY hands, Guts or/and Garbos works best. For ME. ;)
 
#8
The relationship between a player, their bass and the strings is complex. No one string is best or loudest or warmest or brightest. One player on their bass may find string A the loudest and biggest another may find string B to be that...even on the same bass.

There is no substitute for trial and error. We all have stories of ending up with a pile of strings in boxes or drawers we can't use.

In the end of that process you will find that equipment cannot solve the overarching quest for tone. Some equipment changes make it easier than others and there is no sin in trying to find that combination, however no equipment change will ever substitute for time on the instrument.

You can shortcut the process and use Spiro Mitts for Pizz or Flexocors for Arco and work with them until you get the sound you are looking for. Between your hands, your bass, and your determination in the woodshed, you'll find that big sound in just about anything.
 
#9
guroove said:
What's your definition of 'big sound?' Some consider steels with a deep bottom to be 'big' sounding. I find it kind of thin. It has less to do with the strings than anything else, IMO.
Click to expand...

Well, sure the player and the bass matter a great deal. Still, holding those constant, which I took to be what the OP meant, I think some generalizations about strings can be made. Generalizations, not absolutes. Thus, my answer about the Evahs. Of course, two different basses, with two different players, and two different setups could overwhelm any string generalizations.
 
#10
John Clayton to me after a masterclass: "Forget the strings, the sound is in your head." He went on to tell me that if I pay attention, my body will react to the differences between what's in my head and what I'm hearing, and eventually self-correct. Three months later, my sound is "bigger" than ever.
 
#11
txstatebass said:
John Clayton to me after a masterclass: "Forget the strings, the sound is in your head." He went on to tell me that if I pay attention, my body will react to the differences between what's in my head and what I'm hearing, and eventually self-correct. Three months later, my sound is "bigger" than ever.
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Very valuable advice, I'd say. Then again, your head isn't gonna make Corelli's sound like Evahs. ;) Still, your point is well taken.
 
#12
similarly, my teacher (robert black) to another bass student - "your problem is that you're afraid of the sound of the bass... if you really want a big sound, you'll get it."

i think this is true. if you NEED a big sound, you'll become OBSESSED with getting it. doesn't matter what you're playing on. i have a big sound when i play on my 8-year old student's 1/2 size chinese POS with the strings that came on it and his bow that is made of an unknown material not-of-the-string-instrument world. go figure.

i like permanents btw.
 
#14
Hey, I'm just a recovering addict, trying to help a brother out. Better players than me have coaxed "bigness" out of my bass at times when I was convinced it wasn't there.

I will say that a really good setup (Jake DeVilliers) made all the difference in the world on my bass and I wish I had done it a lot sooner. And accepting that I'm responsible for producing that sound.

As for strings, I read your profile and you've been using good strings. Tough to say which ones would be better. Spriocores, Flexicore and Evah Pirazzis are all good things to try (I've used all of them and more, by the way), but I know a guy who used to sound AMAZING with Animas. My friends bass rattles windows with Helicore Hybrids, which I don't like on any other bass, but I'd trade a kidney for his bass, exactly as it is. It is a puzzle and can be an expensive one.
 
#16
AndreasH said:
+1

The sound is definitley i ones hands, and the definition is different for each person. But for ME, to get a big sound out of MY bass with MY hands, Guts or/and Garbos works best. For ME. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree, first gut, then Garbo, then Anima. But I prefer gut, and as said before, you have to make them sound big. On my first gut attempt, my sound was like a mosquito.

Francois
 
#17
I don't think anyone can answer that question they way you want. In a broad sense the bigger the string the bigger the sound. The higher the tension the bigger the sound. The stiffer the action, the bigger the sound. Except it's not always true. Some basses really open up with low tension strings, and get louder. Not trying to be a smart aleck, that's just, in my experience, the way it is.

Like Uncle Toad said, the interaction of strings, bass and player is what counts. Some strings will work better for your touch and attack, and you'll get a bigger sound.

In my opinion, the best way to get a bigger sound is to practice with the bow. I find that a lot of a big sound is in a strong, precise left hand. Slow bowing scales is excellent practice all the time. And slow plucking scales too--pulling through the string, getting the arm into it, focusing on getting as big a sound as you can.
 
#19
drurb said:
Well, sure the player and the bass matter a great deal. Still, holding those constant, which I took to be what the OP meant, I think some generalizations about strings can be made. Generalizations, not absolutes. Thus, my answer about the Evahs. Of course, two different basses, with two different players, and two different setups could overwhelm any string generalizations.
Click to expand...

Yes, you got me. For you, on your bass, with your hands, arco or pizzicato, and otherwise every other variable controlled... what strings do you put on for the big sound? It could be fat, it could be deep, it could be low tension, it could be quiet, it could be high tension, it could be anything. I guess in mind my at the time of posting I'm asking a very basic question, asking for something practical, not just bulbous. After, even if you have more than one bass, you can only be in one place at a time.

I do understand how the bass has limits, is not infinitely deep, the resonance of the A string is a good marker... although a good E gives you much more reach downwards. I'd like to try and find a way to maximize that. Bass waves a exotic in a way, and I get grea joy in discovering their natures, having that as my duty... the bass can produce all frequencies, and people like Rabbath have shown us that a minimal action can produce these fundamentals as well - it's not about strength, the instrument is big for you, the string is long for you, etc. So how does one get a focused enough sound, which is usable, agile, not just big....? With my experience on Corelli 370M set I've seen that the bass is indeed only so deep, in that it can sound more focused and 'comfortable' (to me) and bigger with actually a lighter or looser set up, and if you push it to be bassy too much the sound can be harmed... after awhile you end up augmenting "mid" ranges, which may be good, focused. Certainly, if the action gets too loose and free then it can just sound mushy, uncentered and lacking definition... this is a good thing in a way, because then you may learn that the focused sound is you, what you do at the moment, and then you can be free to play what you want, it's crazy, but some people think a focused sound requires something - it doesn't. If you pluck softer or louder, the sound is the sound. Same for the bow.

So I use solo obligato strings tuned to orchestral ptich because I realize that playing small on the instrument makes it sound bigger, and because my left hand is messed up, weak. I went into playing thinking you need to push a certain amount to get the bass to speak over the other frequencies, which is true, but not as extreme as I was taught. In other words, that harmonic became fundamental with time when I'd play with insufficient wieght - a world-changing discovery for me and my stiff-ass bass. Playing on Corelli370M felt good, but I thought, let me keep the low tension, the low action, the ease of playing, the response, but get more body, more bass, more warmth, more gauge... I went with solo because it seems closer to 370M, smaller, than orchestral tuning. For sound, for my hand. Now I've seen how weightless one can play and still be profound, and I can imagine playing with low action, so I guess I could use any string now, as long as I can finger comfortable.

PB+J is right about long tones, I think, being able to have a strong left hand, to be able to get the fullest vibration and keep the string down - this is no small task for me. Now I've been using an orchestal E string and I see how it's big but not choked, going with the solo strings - and obligato is loose as a brand, I feel. I like to have that action, that clearance and still be able to play comfortably with my left hand, the sound has definition but it's really blending, not twanging or cold or super focused. And yet, I'm wondering what can be done to get more, big and bass sound and yet I feel free - a big string does not have to translate into choked sound, or dark sound. So the bass puts out a blend of frequencies and we have to adjust this palate. It's a bit of a compromise, you know, so that when we go for a bassy sound we can drastically lose treble, etc., falling into a response that blasts the bass over everything else, or vice versa.

So I think, somewhere in between there's softness, complexity, brillance, playability, response, and definition, strength, expressive range, depth, weight, etc. The bass has a fixed size and so it's not right to think that it can sound great no matter how big the string is, to me, and everntually there will be a lose of tone greater than the gain... fundamental vs. harmonics, simplicity vs. complexity... maybe that's all wrong. I'm not just trying to get the most out of my instrument, which is a fair thing to try, but I'm also trying to get the lowest frequencies to be as obvious as the others, if I want it, to be consistant, to be even, blah, blah, etc., etc..

And of course it's different to everyone else, never mind the instrument, just considering the difference in hearing, in perception... what's the thing people grab onto, what the loudest part? I'm dreaming of something where that string core sound is in balance with a fundamental so deep that the player and listener can travel together into a sound range that's so low and clear and focused and accessible that one forgets everything - that the bass sounds this way or that way, that it's weaker on the E than the A, typically, and eveness and agility are matched. I may be close with the setup I have now, more than I know... I really like it.

Obligato seem good for their looseness, and their tone is unique. I feel like that looseness gives lows, softens the core sound, creates some highs, some mellower edge. The gauge and tension pushes the whole thing to be heavier, more definite. Starting with the solo gauge means I'm more within the easy zone of the instrument, and then the E just sounds more, not strident or forced. I certainly mean to go into the heavier strings, put back on my Original Flexocors, and exploit the action to a full range. I feel something's gonna be fun, going that direction... lower action, more response, less weight, more brillance, and the heavy sound. They maybe the answer here, or more like it. So what am I doing typing... Because when I soften the action I lose that fundamental and get more of a feeling of midrange and fluid sound. (This is hard to talk about I can tell from everyone's post. At least I'm still left wondering.) The mid tones and warmth and edge and fundamental and everything else need to balance; the textures, the frequencies. An overall tone needs to be well rounded. We can come to generalizations, theories, but it's not the way for everyone. I'm gonna put on some Evah Pirazzi orchestra in March 26, since then I'll have had the Obligato for a year. It may be so much simpler then. I've had the Flexocor 92's and they were good, somewhat tight, but focused therefore. The may sound fuller with lower action, softer, more flexible, but yeah. It's a personal quest, I know. Thank you for response. Keep on until you're there.
 
#20
... I guees I'm missing the low end difinition. When I think of that deifinion I think of a presence, a strong frequency, and then there's a cut-off, a void in sound, under that. The nice thing about soft strings is their subtle sounds, and there's a fit in between, so I feel like I need more time with something heavier. Sometimes I feel like strings aren't nearly heavier enough... and that's part of the reason why I asked about big sound in the first place. I want to ask;

what are some good heavy strings? What are the heaviest? D'Addario heavy? Spirocore heavy? Oh, boy... I have no idea, see? That's the trap of temptation - the feeling that what you're doing is not enough or wrong, the desire to change it without following through on what's logically the first option. I wanted to cahnge them randomly for x-mas, and for my teacher... so far I'm building that obligato sound...
 

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