Bill Lawrence P-46 vs EB-60PB(Bill Lawrence USA)

[greenspider]

I recently acquired a p bass copy for cheap at a pawn shop and i wanted to put some Bill lawrence pups into it, but which ones would best suite me. I was wondering if someone had any experience with both of these pickups and there pros and cons. Im more inclined for the P-46 knowing that they are coming from Bill himself, but i like the concept of the blade pickup and that they are cheaper and that i have a Gibson G3 Grabber which uses blade type pickups, even though i know it won't sound exactly the same as it, the EB-60PB might be what I'm looking for. I'd appreciate any advice or help. Thx

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Bill Lawrence USA seems to have recently disappeared off of the face of the Earth. The website is 'parked'. With the P-46, the poles actually act as a blade, and Bill has produces coils completely free of internal shorts. BL USA never approached comparable quality in what they made.

 

[62bass]

Bill Lawrence USA seems to have recently disappeared off of the face of the Earth. The website is 'parked'. With the P-46, the poles actually act as a blade, and Bill has produces coils completely free of internal shorts. BL USA never approached comparable quality in what they made.

Bill Lawrence is still in operation and if you go to his website there is a contact link to email Shannon, his daughter, who will take your orders. I got a P46 delivered to me in 3 weeks after placing my order and I live in Canada. Their website is a little hard to navigate but he still sells all the models he did before. Shannon is easy to work with.

Bill's P 46 is the real deal. If you want his sound and quality plus a great price at $56 plus shipping, don't waste your money on the rip offs from others.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Absolutely, but Bill Lawrence USA is not. It's a company one of Bill's old business partners, who never previously made pickups, started in hopes of taking advantage of Bill's name. He makes awful quality products. Bill Lawrence himself sells pickups as Wilde USA, making phenomenal products at exceedingly low prices. Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[62bass]

Exactly right. I should have mentioned the real Bill Lawrence pickups at Wilde. The other guy,as Derek mentioned, stole Bill's name from him when Bill was off on a trip to Europe. It's a shocking story but true. Now Bill, who has designed some great pickups for other big companies such as Fender's Roscoe Beck bass pickups, as well as his own line, can't market them as Bill Lawrence.

 

[greenspider]

Thank you guys for your responses. When I sell off a few more things, I'm going to get a P-46! I was also wondering if anyone knows if bill would remake G3 pups or Grabber humbucker. I searched around and he used to make an eb-50, I'm not sure if thats for the fake Bill Lawrence usa, but i wonder if Bill would make reissue Grabber pickups. My friend wants some G3 pups real bad after he heard my Gibby!

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Bill also did the G3, Ripper and Grabber pickup designs.

 

[archtop2]

Wanted to get some info on BL USA make for basses as I want to try long scale neck after six strings

L500XL from BL USA is the most punchy pup I used in a guitar, and as it works great with low tuning (I use it on dropped C guitar) I wanted to try it in a mojo bass.

I saw genuine bass pup was also in the BL USA range, so I found some good information outside USA again, ie not polluted with this heinous fake BL argument.

One guy in UK gives a very good feedback

BILL LAWRENCE {{HI-OUTPUT}} EB-60 P-BASS PICK-UP
What can I say? It's clear, powerful with tone to spare.. The bass thumps and the treble sings.. It makes the stock MIM pickup sound like an under-water fart.. I now have turbo P-Bass!!
Bass 9/10 (I'm trying to be objective here.. It's 10/10 for me!!)
Mids 7/10
Treble 8/10
This pickup has got classic P-Bass tones in spades.. For a 'Punk Rock' player like me it's got JJ Burnell and Matt Freeman as well as Dee Dee... It's also capable of a nice clean tone that would suit Reggae and Soul.. I'm very happy with what it's done for a Standard MIM Fender P-Bass.. Well worth a go!!

Then one year after, same guy states :

Well.. It's still on my P-bass and I'm still enjoying the hell out of it..
It was great in the studio last weekend and impressed the guy running the place and producing our album..
As for do they sound like an active pickup?
I don't like the sound of active pickups personally and chose not to go that route, but get passive pickups that where better than the stock pickups and not the generic seymour duncan's that everyone puts on their Precision.. The tone is brighter, louder and clearer than the stock pickups providing me with a mud-free sound.. In fact I have to use my trusty Marshall Guvnor 2 pedal to give me some dirt live and in the studio..
If you play Punk/Hardcore/Rock I'd recommend this pickup.. With the blades I'm always getting asked about them and other Bass players ask about my sound and admire my modifications to the old MIM Precision.. I'm still very happy with a great purchase!!

The other guy,as Derek mentioned, stole Bill's name from him when Bill was off on a trip to Europe. It's a shocking story but true.

Circa 1984, Willy Stich aka Bill Lawrence left his company due to financial problems and went back to Germany where he founded OBL in 1987. His partner afforded for all unpaid invoices and a court gave him the sole ownership of the company, evidence (court resume) is easy to get on the web.
He runs the same factory since then with all products unchanged (he is not an engineer in any way), the most famous being the L500XL used by Dime.
Willy Stich was back in the US mid 90's and restarted a new business, he sued his former partner to regain his business name but was finally disallowed.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

He runs the same factory since then with all products unchanged...

Try out an old one and a new one and see if you agree with this statement.

I have both old and new L-250s, and the new one is microphonic and sounds thinner. It's lower in resistance also.

 

[archtop2]

A debate on L-250 Invalid Link Removed.
Most changes in the products were during Bill himself era between 1978/1984, EZ is just unable to do any change in pup (i think we can agree on this fact), thus the current BL USA range is a fossil of Bill's last range in 1984 (Black labels, L500, L250, bass).

I discussed with a luthier near by who preferred BL USA because more stable to his taste (fossil built), whereas pickups he received from Bill were (longer to get) very good but less predictable in the results, as a "by hand" result. And never heard about any microphony problem.

People who get a Bill Lawrence without knowing about the controversy (like me) are always astonished by the sound they get, like the guy in UK I quoted above.

I'm on the way for a pair of EB-60 mid, EB-50 bridge, my concern is the width of the latter since it's the Gibson size and may be not large enough for a Jazz bridge...

As EZ business seems now "parked", I'll quickly take those pups because of BL USA specific taste I can't find anywhere else.

 

[Derek Kiernan]

I discussed with a luthier near by who preferred BL USA because more stable to his taste (fossil built), whereas pickups he received from Bill were (longer to get) very good but less predictable in the results, as a "by hand" result.

Less predictable in what way? All of Bill's pickups are free of internal shorts, have very precisely designed and constructed magnetic circuits and are very sensitive to height adjustments and the instrument they're in. If you're talking about sound quality, it's way more likely he was comparing without all variables being equal and attributing sonic differences incorrectly to inconsistency in build quality. Another possibility for that comment is in installation, the combination of surgical tubing and the brushing/screws used can make it a little tricky initially. Have you tried Wilde pickups? The poles on the bass pickups act similar to blades because of their close proximity to one another.

On the legal issue... BL USA has forged documents submitted to the court and has ignored their decisions. Bill Lawrence has a social security card and a federal service mark. There's been recent developments in BL USA's business practices that don't have a presence on the internet to reference. What BL USA does isn't ethical or legal. Whether someone likes the products that come from there can exist independent of that Someone could quite plausibly like BL USA products more than many mass producted pickups, and certainly more than the infamous MIM stock electronics. The designs themselves are good, but the quality doesn't compare to Wilde USA or the old pickups LSR made. If you're sure you want one of BL USA's offerings specifically, I'd look for NOS. Wilde USA doesn't make a double bladed humbucker for bass use. If they made an L90 or L500 with the wider blades, I pick one up too! Some have tried them (without extended blades) using narrow string spacing on bass with great results. Maybe SGD knows the spacing question offhand.

 

[archtop2]

...All of Bill's pickups are free of internal shorts...

This happens... 4 years ago, guys on a french forum bought about ten XL500 to Bill, one of them got a defect, a bobin cut...
I don't criticise here Bill's production, or try to establish any statistics, I just mean discrepancies do happen as the luthier told me.

the infamous MIM stock electronics

yeah, I have a Fender TexMex Strat pup, never seen such bad built, wandering wire in the bobbin, no ribbon, but adjustable poles and a sound I love....

If you're sure you want one of BL USA's offerings specifically, I'd look for NOS. Wilde USA doesn't make a double bladed humbucker for bass use. If they made an L90 or L500 with the wider blades, I pick one up too! Some have tried them (without extended blades) using narrow string spacing on bass with great results. Maybe SGD knows the spacing question offhand.

Right, NOS are time to time available like [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], it also indicates an old address for Bill Lawrence company: 2053 Freda Lane, Cardiff, CA.

btw looking for the pup, I found a thread about a BL bass, if any of you knows about it ... pickup seems to be the EB-50PB

 

[FingerBass8704]

So, hows the P-46 sound? Is is vintage or modern. High output or normal output? I'm looking for a pickup to cut through but be clear.

 

[jallenbass]

It's very clear.

 

[RoadRanger]

I searched around and he used to make an eb-50, I'm not sure if thats for the fake Bill Lawrence usa,

I have a 30 year old EB-50 , sounds awesome!

 

[FingerBass8704]

Does it have a high enough output to cut through in hard rock and metal a la Steve Harris?
Its a choice between Dimarzio Split P, SD Basslines Quarter Pound and this. I know the QP has cutting power.

 

[jallenbass]

I don't play those styles so I don't know.

 

[markanini]

Bill's bass pickups will cut through as good as any in a rock context, trust me.

 

[RoadRanger]

FWIW I had my EB-50 mounted in pretty much the same place as the photo above on a neckthru Guild and it had plenty of "cut" while still being smooth. A little too aggressive for recording IMO at the time but perhaps today it would fit in well?

 

[BackToTheGroove]

bump news:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
We've introduced some specialty pickups this year-a limited run of a new L-500 for seven string guitars and the reissue of Bill's well-known L-500 EB-50 for bass guitars. The new seven string L-500 pickup blade offers the string spread to accommodate the seven string spacing, and the EB-50 has a long history of bass players using it in their instruments like, for example, Allen Woody with the Allman Brothers. BTW--both the L-500 pickups for seven string and bass look identical with the extended blade on top, but there are different pickup options selected for each style of instrument. Please contact us first to see if the L-500 Seven String and the EB-50 pickups will work for you.

In the future, I'll make more effort to communicate with you more regularly and keep everyone posted with all the good news what's happening here at the Lawrence's!

Our very best regards,
Becky and Bill

---

This summer I ordered a P46 from Wilde/real Bill. It arrived in about 3 weeks from California to New Brunswick (opposite ends of the continent). Its for a Carl Radle project I am finally getting to this weekend.