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Double Bass Blending Piezo + Magnetic pickups. Anyone have success?

Apr 13, 2006
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Queen City of the Plains
Disclosures
Krivo Pickups
I have been attempting to blend pickups for a couple of years now and really haven't had very good luck. I am currently using a Yamaha SLB300 Silent bass with the built in electronics (previously used an eminence with a realist) mixed with a Krivo magnetic pickup. I have been using a Radial Bassbone OD to attempt to blend the two signals but it's hard to get a balanced tone when mixed. One seems to always overpower the other to to extent where one is the core tone and the other is just subtle flavoring. I also seem to run into string balance issues when mixing the two signals I don't notice when playing either pickup soloed. I'm not sure if I'm using this term correctly, but the notes can sound kind of "phase-y" strange when blended. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how did you get past it? What blending box did you use?

I think my blender/pre/DI is part of the issue. I've found after years of using it that the Bassbone has a lot of features, but most of them are pretty mediocre (big gain drop when signals mixed, useless OD, crude EQ that is mostly just cuts and boosts, crappy switchable HPFs, weird sounding effects loop) but I like the DI, impedance drag for the magnetic pickup, tuner out, channel selector, and mute switch. It also sounds good and sound professionals love to see a radial DI on stage! The only other preamp/DI/Blender that seems to have the features I need is the grace designs Felix, which seems like a whole lot to spend and could perhaps not solve the issue.

I'm generally playing on pretty large / very large stages these days and we don't tour with our own sound person. My goal on most nights on tour is to send a strong, usable, good sounding signal to the front of house without feedback. Sending the Krivo soloed always works, but sometimes the mixed in piezo only comes through the mix in a negative way (brittle finger noise, hot notes, ill-defined low thump, some feedback on sustained notes.) If anyone has any advice, experience, or insight to this topic.

(I know magnetic pickups are lame on DB. I just need to use one for a touring band that requires ear-splitting volume and an analog octaver.)
 
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Two pieces of kit you may want to look at are the Redeye Twin and the Radial Mixer-Blender. Both are two-instrument mixer DI's with effects loops - and I imagine they will sound better than the Bassbone (i dont like the bassbone). With either of these, I might try throwing effects in front of the Krivo going into the first input, send the Yamaha's onboard straight into the second input, and then put any additional eq/preamp/hpf in the effects loop. The Felix is pretty tempting, but it is a lot of money, and I also don't know that it would solve your problem.
 
I would highly recommend the Headway EDB-2 H.E. I use one to blend a mic with a piezo, and the dedicated 5-band EQs for each channel are indeed very useful. There is also a 3-way phase switch that might help with your string balance issue. A third benefit is, or might be, the harmonic enhancer. I find that it really improves my Realist Lifeline; it extends the high frequency response while somehow also removing a lot of the nasty, brittle sounds you mentioned.

Disclaimer: I have no experience with magnetic pickups on DB. I experimented at home with blending multiple piezos, and quickly decided that it was way more trouble than it was worth. Blending a mic with a pickup, though, is a pleasure with the Headway (as long as you know your way around sound equipment already, that is).
 
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I think we get a phase/comb filtering using the Krivo and a contact pickup. I always feel disturbed trying to blend the Krivo with the Lifeline. It's worth exploring because the front end of the note sounds way better via piezo. I only use one or the other, but might considering blending via my new Headway EDB-2 H.E. which works great blending the Lifeline and Nadine mic.
 
Two pickups always create some phase cancellations. BG players are familiar with this "scooped" sound. It usually doesn't get to the point of sounding like a phaser pedal, but it can if the phase relationship is just right, um, wrong between the pickups.

The piezo will deliver more low end, many will respond to subsonic frequencies. The best mix I've heard is to roll off the high of the piezo, rolled off upper harmonics but a strong fundamental. Then mix in the mag pickup above the piezo to provide the upper harmonics, maybe even high pass filter it. Then experiment with the EQ on each pickup until you find the right blend.

It really helps to have a preamp like the Felix with two flexible but independent EQ sections including independent high pass filters. I've tried blending with pres that had volume for each input but a common EQ and never liked the result.

I only have steel strings on my Juzek, so that one has both a Full Circle (piezo) and a String Charger (mag). I haven't tried to use them mixed for twenty years! I use the mag by itself when I need more volume before feedback or pitch definition.
 
I've used the older Headway EDB-2 as a doubling amp with a Lakeland 55-94 so it works with fine magnetic pickups. That said the Red Eye Twin works great with Magnetic and Piezo pickups and improves their tone. It a much less sophisticated pedal but you just plug it into the front end of your amp and play.
 
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Mark Diamond blends piezo and mag with a cool device built in denver, or just north- the swordfish- This is on his upright, not stick.. an active pre that's built into the tailpiece that blends. Also, I bet the Grace Felix would do good.
Next time you're in Asheville let me know :)
Swordtail

Swordtail Bass-Standard
 
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I just read the description, and I'm still not sure I understand exactly what this product is. Can you explain it in English? Where does Bartolini come into this?
Chris, I am not sure even the maker knows! I had an email conversation with him and he could not even tell me the input impedance.
 
I'm running my Ischell and RevSolo simply with 2 cables into my AI Coda. Like others blending, the Ischell is my highs and mids, the RevSolo is my bottom.

OP, curious, have you just thought about running magnetic alone? Does it matter at the volume your trying to play in? Not trying to be a wise ass, but when I'm playing a larger stage with a loud group, I'm usually bringing my BG or my EUB, and that point, you might be the only one who hears the difference. I've made a pack with myself: no more of that s**t. To old, and all I want to do is play my uprights.
 
I've used a Full Circle piezo and a String Charger magnetic blended using a BassBone OD. I didn't notice the issues you describe.

I messed up my BassBone by using an incorrect power source, got it repaired, but it developed a faint distortion ever since that I hear subtly in the decay of long notes. It was subtle enough that it was hard to pinpoint, but loud enough that it drove me crazy. Rather than mess around with more shipping and customs hassle to and from Radial I just bit the bullet and got a Felix. If anyone wants to fix up a BassBone OD for really cheap pm me.

In a pinch I've used a passive ABY box and plugged my mag into one side and an old Fishman preamp to my piezo in the other side. That actually worked fine too, I just used the volume on the Fishman pre to balance the two.

I really like the mag/piezo combo for loud music. I usually blend in just enough piezo to make arco audible.
 
I spent many happy years with the Biesele magnetic pickup & onboard active blending unit. That was such a treat to work with. Usually ran just a dab of magnetic to fill out the piezo & punch a bit. 50/50 if the band was getting stupid loud - punchy like a P-bass but still has acoustic nuance. 100% magnetic for backup if the piezo is dying.
That setup was just super. If I hadn't switched to guts on my 4-string I'd keep using it forever.