Double Bass Blue Bossa?

[Tom Lane]

I've been digging into Blue Bossa and it's generated a question: how do harmony players typically voice that first chord in your experience? According the New Real Book, that chord is a C-6, but the pianist could pick the Natural 6th or the flatted 6th. Listening the 1971 Joe Henderson recording Live in Japan, it sounds to me as though Hideo Ickhikawa is playing a C-7 and not a 6th at all. I suspect that many of the pianists I've played with do the same, is that your experience? I think my preference is for the Natural 6th because it creates movement between the C- and F- chords and is a more interested note than the minor 7th. Do you have a preference? If so, do tell!

 

[eJake]

I am a super amateur piano player but I'd probably play a C-9 based on the melody playing on a G.

 

[Don Kasper]

Why not have it ALL?
Cmin 6/9,7,11.

 

[Don Kasper]

Hmmm, interesting, I'll give it a try. I can certainly see a minor 6/9 may work well there... you picked the flatted 6th in that voicing, is that your preference over the Natural 6th? You could have the Natural 6th and Minor 7th in the same voicing if you put the Minor 7th below the 6th, no? Is that what you hear your favorite pianists playing?

NOOOOOOOO!!
That is an A natural (natural 6) with the Bb (minor 7) a half-step above. So = Cmin7, 6/9, 11.
I like min 6/9 there as well. I DON'T like the b6 in that Cmin chord AT ALL....
I just listened to the Kenny D. version and the pianist occasionally does play the min6/9.
Thanks.

 

[Don Kasper]

Did you happen to hear the minor 7th in those 6/9s too?

Yes.

So, I'm with you, I don't the flatted 6th.

Yes!

What does Ed play?

Who is "Ed"?

 

[Don Kasper]

Inneresting, thanks! Ed Czach, your frequent partner in crime!

I can't say for sure, as he never calls BBossa, (he knows it, but doesn't call it....too familiar, I guess), but I can verify that it is NOT b6...probs min7 and or min6/9.
Thanks.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The traditional choices are minor7/ min6 / min6/9. McCoy clearly accentuates the A natural on the intro on the original recording with Joe Henderson in 1963.

The advanced answer is Cmi season to taste.

I played last night with drummer Mike Hyman, my most frequent partner in time these days. Mike toured and recorded with Joe's band as a teenager in 1977 (!), and actually lived in Joe's house for a while during this time. He was talking about his time with Joe and Stan Getz and Gary Burton last night on the set breaks. There were a lot of great stories, but one thing he is really clear on is that in these bands there was very little of the kind of theoretical literal "this chord implies this scale" kind of thinking going on among the many musicians who came in and out of these bands during this time. He makes it a point to reinforce this when working the students at the university who are curious as to the theoretical approach of these and other players Mike played with.

 

[Tom Lane]

Why not have it ALL?
Cmin 6/9,7,11.
View attachment 2900869

I played around with this voicing for a half hour, thanks for suggesting it. It's interesting how that first voicing influences all of the voicings that come after. I'm having fun exploring 5-note, two-handed voicings working through Frank Mantooth's book.

 

[Don Kasper]

plop this down in front of him

One does not simply "plop...down" an arrangement in front of Ed...I'm not sure that he would like this - it's a bit "academic", (but maybe worthwhile as an etude?)
I once "plopped" down my arrangement of No More Blues, (of which he approved) and his response was - "This is nice...who did you steal it from?"
Yeah...
Thanks.

 

[Tom Lane]

One does not simply "plop...down" an arrangement in front of Ed...I'm not sure that he would like this - it's a bit "academic", (but maybe worthwhile as an etude?)
I once "plopped" down my arrangement of No More Blues, (of which he approved) and his response was - "This is nice...who did you steal it from?"
Yeah...
Thanks.

That's MY issue! I need to STEAL better!

 

[Don Kasper]

PM sent.

 

[Lee Moses]

Don, you have long fingers.

View attachment 2902436

A minor 1oth? I would expect that any pianist without hand trouble (arthritis, injury, etc.) could make that stretch with little difficulty.

 

[Don Kasper]

Don, you have long fingers.

View attachment 2902436

NO....I have a sustain pedal on my piano!
Thanks.

 

[JRA]

disclosure: i'm from the other side!

FWIW: my original real book calls it a Cm7. but with all of the piano cats (i've played with: vary their own take) i usually hear Cm9 --- 9th's being popular in a lot of latin/brazilian interpretations . some of them like Cm7b13 which catches that b6 sound.

my own playing of that tune might often include the 9th and the 11th, but i don't recall ever getting to a 13th as a matter of practice...but if i did: i would flat it (in passing) to respect the next change Fm7 (in my book!).

The advanced answer is Cmi season to taste.

easy to go with this one, IMO.

 

[JRA]

all of your options just remind me of how different piano cats might approach the tune --- given their idiosyncrasies, and whether or not they are tipplers. i think most of the 'stylistic' renditions of that tune are using adds even though the players wouldn't bother 'writing them in' on their own arrangement. in general, however, i'd be thinking of that b6 sound as really the b13 whether or not the 9th and 11th were played/heard.

i do agree with the point that what we hear on that first chord strike has a lot to do with where the tune goes or can go. i don't see/hear any issues with your passing changes --- but it's all about context for me. if the piano player (or guitar) is thoughtful: i'll support that with my note choice...even when the 'harmonic flow' is being tested. that can be the fun part.

 

[geoffbassist]

I like to play the natural 6th (A) over bars 1&2 as I really enjoy the contrast and voice leading to the Ab in bars 3&4 (Fmin7). Especially as the 3rd (Ab) of the Fmin7 chord is in the melody in bars 3&4.

I hear it played with b6 often though and of of course it depends on the day of the week and who you're playing with, but I usually think Cm6/9, especially when soloing.

 

[jezyorkshire]

using b6 is bad in my opinion, it sounds like an inversion of Ab, plus it robs the harmonic movement from tonic to subdominant as both guide tones of Fm7 are already present if using Cm with b6