Bobby Vega's (KVHW) messing with my head...

[Ricky Caboverde]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this query, but here goes!

I've been listening to a recording KVHW did of their tune " Spring Water," and somewhere in the middle of the extended guitar solo, there seems to be some sort of metric shift. I can't figure out exactly what happened--much less how to count through it. If anyone here is able to impart some wisdom, I'd really appreciate it

Specifically the bit between 8:42-8:55...

 

[PapaBearBass]

I think it’s staying in 4/4 but the drummer is syncopating his snare hits

 

[PapaBearBass]

BTW … love me some Bobby Vega so thank you for this clip

 

[Ricky Caboverde]

I think it’s staying in 4/4 but the drummer is syncopating his snare hits

Yeah, it's definitely syncopated. At times, I feel like it goes into a triple meter, but it evades me when I push it back and try to count along.

 

[mambo4]

I agree it's staying in 4/4 while the drummer gets spicy. Drummer definitely throwing triplets in there. Bobby is changing up what he does and acknowledging the difference, but it's still anchored in 4/4. The fact that he's hitting 2 16ths on the downbeat, with a slight emphasis on the 2nd one, might obscure things a bit. But if you clap along and listen to Bobby, the meter is pretty solid.

 

[gonzkal]

I too feel it as a 4/4 throughout. The drummer emphasizes dotted quarters giving this a 3 over 4 feel.

 

[Ricky Caboverde]

Thanks so much guys! I’ll go back and listen again with this in mind

 

[logdrum]

That's Kimock on the guitar. That's the Bay Area jam sound . I only need to hear a couple bars and recognized Steve's sound right away Yes well executed but nothing new IMO - specially if you or in my case my significant other listened to this genre extensively

Steve Kimock worked for Mesa Boogie briefly back in the day,

 

[billiard]

They lost time and all rushed the tempo about 1.5 beats to the downbeat collectively. That's the answer

 

[mobeme23]

the drummer: Alan Hertz
Alan used to (and still does) throw long syncopated phrases all over the place to keep the rhythm section on their toes.

those Spring 98 shows were some of my favorite live shows ever (to date). so much freedom and energy. And Bobby was at the center of it all, keeping the ship steady.

i was just referencing this video a few months back trying to transcribe the lyrics for Spring Water...turns out, the lyrics were not only created on-the-spot, but never really the same on any given night.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I am counting straight 4/4 as well. The drums are making it feel like it's different with the syncopation and having an extended period where you're not hearing an accented one.

 

[Ben Clarke]

I just call that getting swimmy for a second.

From my perspective, the drummer started getting a bit early, while doing big triplets. More big triplety stuff followed then they got it back together.

This isn't something that calls for counting, it's a feel thing that is really helpful in improvisational situations.

Just make eye contact and listen as hard as you can when it happens. And look at hands too, that downbeat bringing it back in is the key to making it sound like you all did it on purpose.

*Disclaimer: I did go to school for this stuff, but the real truth is not in the math, but in the feel and understanding.
Also, it could be that the drummer was completely doing it intentionally in a perversely polyrhythmic way... if so, I bow to him.

 

[joe vegas]

yep, time stays in 4/4 but as Ben Clarke says above, the time gets swimmy for a bit. a staple of jammybands is to loosen the time up by soaking it in half-note triplets across measure lines for a few measures, then all coming back on a hard downbeat. makes the tie-dies go gaga with delight!

 

[Ben Clarke]

yep, time stays in 4/4 but as Ben Clarke says above, the time gets swimmy for a bit. a staple of jammybands is to loosen the time up by soaking it in half-note triplets across measure lines for a few measures, then all coming back on a hard downbeat. makes the tie-dies go gaga with delight!

Hemiola for the People

 

[Brad Maestas]

Thanks for sharing! Love this footage.

 

[gonzkal]

the real truth is not in the math, but in the feel and understanding

I see what you mean, but wanted to add: doing the math (getting analytical) helps some people with the understanding part

 

[stringthrough]

Bobby is holding down the 4/4 it's just that the drummer took a solo for a few bars, and in it lost the 1. Can't say I cared for it.

 

[Dbassmon]

Not my favorite choice of drum fills. It's all 4/4. I don't believe it serves the vibe, the soloist or the song. Just because you can, does not mean you should.

 

[aprod]

Drummer messed up.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Sounds like the cymbal crashes were on the off beats, which drags the listeners ear to think they’re ON the beats.

The guitarist also sounded surprised and was out of the pocket too.