• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Boomy rooms must DIE

threshar

threshar

Jul 30, 2002
744
2
Visit site
#1
Played a show yesterday in a horrific room. well, it was actually more of a pavillion with a permanent roof. To say it was boomy and echoy is an understatement. It was made worse by the fact my band is pretty bass heavy so you can only cut out so much low end before there is nothing left..

One funny thing that happened is we have a driverack which does all sorts of auto-eq and auto-feedback supression, etc. etc. and it usually works quite nicely. What was happening yesterday was it was thinking some of the bass bouncing off the back wall and the general boomyness of the room was feedback so it started cutting those frequencies resulting in it cutting out nearly all low end :)

we'd played there before with a pro sound company and they couldn't get it under control either and they were riding the board the whole time. Not going to play there again..

I hate it when I know FOH sound is substandard. It really kills my enthusiasm and distracts me. (and it is worse when you are trying to ignore all the boomyness of the room and all the sound bouncing around that is tricking your ears into hearing different things).

ahh well, just wanted to vent a little. Boomy rooms should DIAF. I'd rather play a cramped tight space with good sound than a big space with lousy sound any day.
 
#2
Subscribed and here's why...

Just bought a DriveRack based on the recommendation of those-in-the-know. I know it has like 25 presets, a set-up wizard, auto-EA, auto FB suppression and gosh knows what else. It must have its strong points and limitations; I'd like to hear about them.

Riis
 
#4
Good luck avoiding boomy rooms when you're a musician. I do them all the time. Boomy rooms can't be overcome, but they can be minimized by a band and soundman who understand separation of frequencies and are willing to do what it takes to make it work. Most bassists don't want to do it because it involves turning down and rolling off some low end, so they end up frustrated all night. But the room isn't going to change for you, so you need to change for the room. And the soundman has to be extra conscious of the bass drum, toms, and bass not stepping on each other's frequency ranges. Plus you can help a lot by not playing too loud and causing even more phasing issues with all that bass bouncing around a live room.
 
#5
Indeed. Lowering the volume helped a bunch. Unfortunately I can't ride the board and tweak things AND play at the same time. I'm not that good (YET!)

Somewhat comically - we played an ice cream social at a local library. It rained that day so we got to play inside (HAHAH! WE GOT TO BE LOUD IN A LIBRARY!) and it sounded better.

c'est la vie. I just have to play so it sounds good in my ear and hope the audiences agree. Then again, audiences I've found are usually pretty dumb. We'll have a horrific night and they'll say it was great.

As for the driverack - until that most recent issue - it is quite slick.
 
#7
Played a boomy room where I used the DI out from my head and turned down my amp on stage relying on the monitors and mains. (right on, MNAirhead, right on)

Had a big problem though. Turned out that my monitor was unplugged (thought it was dead until after our set when our drummer noticed it was unplugged) so I could not not hear myself at all. Had to play the set totally by 'pattern memory' of the songs and try to visually catch the improv changes we do. That was tough.

The sound guy did his job though, since people said we sounded fine through the system.
 
#8
There is no fix for all situations, but a good parametric EQ with shelving capability on each end of the spectrum can really help. Ability to control frequency and Q is essential. There is a learning curve in getting comfortable in using one effectively. Small changes in EQ boost or cut, can do a lot if the frequency and Q are selected with care and good sense.

I have a Rane PE17 which I like a lot. It has been discontinued, and I don't believe that Rane has offered another model as an upgrade. They come up used once in a while. The PE15, which was the predecessor to the PE17 is just as good sounding, and a bit less tricky to use, and would be just as good for a bass rig. The PE17 is five band, plus high and low shelving. The PE15 is five band, where the low and high bands can be set to work as shelving EQs.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#9
i dont know of a ton of overly boomy rooms. i know boomy FOH guys.. as they never made an effort to correct a room if it WERE boomy.

what i DO know, is boomy stages. nothing like my cab, the kick drum, the hollow plywood stage, and the monitors all coupling into one giant indiscernible 50-150 hz flood.

the sort of cuts i find at the end of those gigs were a real eye opener. no idea i could play an entire show with no bass in my.. well.. bass.
 
#10
Doc Ellis said:
Played a boomy room where I used the DI out from my head and turned down my amp on stage relying on the monitors and mains. (right on, MNAirhead, right on)

Had a big problem though. Turned out that my monitor was unplugged (thought it was dead until after our set when our drummer noticed it was unplugged) so I could not not hear myself at all. Had to play the set totally by 'pattern memory' of the songs and try to visually catch the improv changes we do. That was tough.

The sound guy did his job though, since people said we sounded fine through the system.
Click to expand...

IF your sound guy was good, this may have been intentional.

The less stage sound there is - the less they have to work around.

To REALLY get a grasp of this concept, I hired an alternate and ran sound with our team.

Boomy rooms are the ideal place for IEM
 
#11
The DRPA auto EQ can sometimes be useful to get a baseline system EQ. The testing must be done outdoors, away from reflective surfaces.

Once indoors, the auto EQ becomes stupid, as it cannot tell direct sound from reflected sound. Tweaks must be done by ear, not by the auto EQ.

I find that most systems - even in the best rooms - have a nasty bump around 80Hz that requires a 6dB or greater cut (on a few systems it's closer to 60Hz). Once this is fixed, the system has no balls - the solution is to turn up the subs. The system then has some decent low end, instead of the one note junk it started out with. (This is seldom recognized by mixpersons.) In a room as you describe, the 80Hz problem will raise all sorts of hell. If the mixpersons don't recognize this simple problem when in a good room, they are not going to get anywhere in a really bad room.
 
#12
It's all about room modes/nodes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_room_modes


and then standing waves, caused by poor system placement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_waves


Sub placement is where you should start. Against a wall, or facing into a corner if possible is the best you can do. I see a lot of subs placed at stage left and right - which is completely fine as long as the subs are placed far apart, and against a wall; Most of the time I see it it's done up all wrong.

Trap tops are pretty useless also, and you don't normally find a small line array setup in most small clubs. Comb filtering becomes a problem here. (See "Doppler-effect")



A GEQ and RTA will only get you so far - and the auto function on the drpa is completely useless. Tune with your ears if you don't have a proper RTA with transfer function available; Your ears are a lot better then the drpa will ever be.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back