Double Bass Bow wobble/bouncing problem

[nlundberg]

Hi,

I am trying to get my rusty bowing technique up to a decent state. However, my bow starts to bounce, especially on the G-string when I do a down bow and reach the middle or upper part of the bow. This kind of stops me from progressing.

I do have a bit of trembling hands which I just have to live with, but I know (old) people with trembling hands that can play with no problem.

Maybe there is some exercises than can help this?

N.

 

[PaulCannon]

I think I know what's happening, but it might be necessary for you to consult with someone in person.

When you play in the outer parts of the bow and want the bow to stay in the string, you have to transfer or direct some weight to that part of the bow. This is an issue on any string, but tends to be a bigger problem on the G-string depending on your stance/posture. Can I assume you are typically sitting down to play? If you stand, it's much easier to move your body around the instrument which might help the issue. Even if you intend to sit, it's worthwhile to experiment with standing just to see the differences in how you use the bow.

As for the transference, you need to understand torque and pronation. The technique will differ depending on whether you are using a German or French bow hold. Either way, the pronation in the hand occurs by tilting your wrist and forearm toward the string. With a German bow, you will feel a little pressure in your thumb; for French, you will feel it in your index finger (you can get a little more power for this by slightly extending your index finger forward on the stick).

You can (and should) supplement this with some movement in your upper back, and perhaps in your waist. As you come closer to the tip, you will want to simultaneously turn your torso to the left and lean forward slightly. You can also experiment with your elbow positioning (how much do you want to raise the elbow as you make a down bow, if at all?)

 

[nlundberg]

Thank you for the reply and useful help.

I actually stand up, but I have been trying keep the bass and body in the same position since I feel that left hand position changes got disturbed by leaning forward.

I tried what you described and I felt improvement! This I can work with for a while. Thank you.

 

[David Potts]

It could be that you have a rather springy bow, a very lively bass or a weakness somewhere along the length of the stick that causes an involuntary jiggle at a certain place on the bow hair. Can you try using someone else's bow and see if the same thing happens?

The relaxed weight of the arm is very important, so that there are no "crane muscles" trying to lift the bow away from resting on the strings as you draw the bow across. To test the feeling of total relaxation rest your hand on something at shoulder height with the arm straight. Consciously relax all the muscle groups on the top of your arm so that it is only held up by your resting hand. Now lift your arm slightly and feel those crane muscles (deltoids, etc) come into play.

Next examine your bow hold to ensure that you are not gripping the bow too tightly between your thumb and fingers. You only need enough strength to hold the shape of your hand as you rest on the string. Think of the string, bow stick and hair as all being flexible "springs" that your bow hold should be sensitive to. For the French bow try coming to your bow hold from opening a gentle fist into a cupped hand with gently curved thumb as the fingers drop into place and spread slightly. Keep the natural alignment of your hand with your forearm through a fairly flat wrist. Rest the bow gently but firmly on a string, say A or D, and see the hair bend and grip as the string is slightly depressed. Start the bow moving sideways then pick up the back three fingers and feel the "hook" formed by your first finger and thumb that is supported by the string as you draw the bow across. Does the bow still jiggle when you do this? Feel the relief when you drop the back three fingers into place again.

This is "on the string" bowing and you can change directions at each end without the need for those back three fingers to lift the bow. Their main role here is to hold and balance the bow against your thumb. If you turn your hand in a few degrees by lifting your elbow up and out slightly this will align the direction your elbow (a hinge joint) bends and straightens with the bow direction. Rest your finger tips on the straight edge of a table or kitchen bench, turn your hand in a few degrees onto your index finger and simulate bowing . You will see the natural sequence of bending and straightening your arm as your fingers follow a straight line. The weight of your right arm is less if you stand to play than if your are seated because your arm hangs almost vertically.

Best wishes, DP

 

[Anonymatt]

My bow used to bounce a lot more than it does now, now it only happens when I'm goofing up or momentarily confused by a bowing indicator on the music. It will happen less I think if you are relaxed and have very pure intentions for what exactly you are doing. Just like threading a needle, I guess.

I have always just noticed these things and they gradually get better. Same thing with the bow traveling up and down the strings unnecessarily.

Mr. Potts' advice is relaxing just to read. Some helpful stuff even for giving a cat a belly rub.

 

[bassmastan]

Have you tried long tones? Or any bowing books? If not I can recommend both Robinson and Gajdos bowing books. If you take it slow and focus on drawing a nice even sound you'll be fine. Keep working hard!

 

[nlundberg]

I really appreciate the good advices you all give here, and Cannon and Potts posts and advices I am bit by bit digesting! Very nice.

Just for the record: I have a very nice 1/1 bass that has the neck cut down to 3/4 mensuration (happened before I bought it), I got an cheap french bow with hair probably not changed in 15 years (!) and I mostly stand up while playing. The strings are not changed in 15 years either.

I have discovered that if I start upbow the wobble is not a problem until I start to reach the middle. So I have been staying in the upper 1/4 of the bow just to get used to not wobbling. Also playing high up on the strings gives less wobble. Of course all this is pretty obvious but it helps focusing in on the problem, it is now a bit easier to parry.

As for long slow soft tones, I think that might be part of the problem. I been doing it quite a bit but the wobbling almost gets worse over time. I can not really parry the wobble.

For a self diagnosis I think relaxation of the muscles is one major part of the problem (and that is a tough one to solve) and the other major part is that I fail in adjusting the grip ("the hook", and the other fingers) while reaching different parts of the bow. Technically the bow maybe is part of the problem too, but I really think that I should be able to play with a cheap bow in any case.