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Double Bass Brad Sarno’s V8 Octal preamp

#101
flatback said:
Yeah I think it is the same kind of eq circuit as on the Noble with a variable mid boost that travels up and down depending on where the treble is set. It seems to me that when the treble is set all the way up there is a mid boost below the ugly frequencies (700-800) that kind of balances them out. My experience so far is that when I listen back to recordings of my gigs what sounds like whiny upper mids in my ear playing becomes a clear woodiness in the recording but it is more forward then I like and feels hard to tame. First world bass problems. Just ordered a set of perpetuals so I am wondering if the strings will tame the whine a little.
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Interesting tack your taking. My sense is that you'll be able to find a ballance somewhere with the Octal V8. Brad built one with a separate mid control, and I would think that would solve whatever issues your having with DB. I think he's

stopped doing that. When I switched over from my B-15N years ago, to a Walter Woods MI-100--8 I found Walters addition of a midrange EQ control to be the most significant thing to improve bass tone quality, GK did the same thing

with the original 200MB's. That's why the Felix gets such high marks in my book simply because of it's parametric Midrange dials. Have you tried just running the BB into the Grace and seing what the tone is like then? I love that combination.
 
#102
flatback said:
...when I listen back to recordings of my gigs what sounds like whiny upper mids in my ear playing becomes a clear woodiness in the recording but it is more forward then I like and feels hard to tame.
Click to expand...

This is the world we DB players inhabit whenever we amplify. It is literally impossible for us to really know what we sound like from out in the crowd. Even if we could take a 50 foot cable out into the middle of the room and soundcheck with the band playing and the audience present, we still wouldn't know because we would have the acoustic sound of the bass with us and it would be blending with what we hear and coloring our judgement. Having another player play doesn't get it either, because two different people playing the same bass sound completely different.

I think the best we can do is to rely on recordings and the impressions of people we trust who might be out in the audience on any given night.
 
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#103
Yesterday I pulled the BB out and put in the felix. The para eq on the mids does a fine job and works well with the V8 but then I have a second channel just staring at me unused and I start getting itchy to blend (resist resist)
 
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#105
Glad to see upright bass players are finally starting to catch on with the toobs. 2 tube preamps right there.
 

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#107
flatback said:
What'cha got there...Seems like the Penn is a custom tube Amp looks cool? Which pre-amps are you showing?
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I was just referring to the tube preamps in those two tube amps. The penn is a clone of the 63 blonde bassman 6g6b circuit. And the ashdown is the ashdown, which I believe is kind of modeled after the vox ac30. Both have that fender tone stack, although the blonde bassman circuit is rather unique I suppose, but I love them both, and if I have to play louder than those amps can play then I don't really want those gigs anyway
 
#108
shwashwa said:
Glad to see upright bass players are finally starting to catch on with the toobs. 2 tube preamps right there.
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Finally!!! Nice looking rigs, I've personally had a few nice tube amps, loved them for electric which I've played professionally for 45 years, just really appreciating what the Vari-Z can do for the weird doo whakka doo crazy mid quack noise that they tend to make and appreciating how simply affective this little box is at taming that awful beast! :)
 
#110
Got a nice email from Brad. He says that with the treble at 12 noon the mid dip is 650-800 which makes sense just intuitively how I use it. But he also said he would add a mid dial that would cut that freq. if I wanted. I am going to send it back and have that put in. I think it would be grand to be able to cut those more especially with the MAS18.
Also he said he is going to start experimenting with HPF design soon which is great given time.
Good things in the works
 
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#112
I know I am a broken record about this incredible preamp, but after a conversation with a well known bass amp Guru who was idealizing about the need for the ultimate hybrid preamp that would have a tube front end with a super surgical SS eq I have played some with the Felix plugged in after the V8 (to emulate that)...to have access to the studio eq, surgical mid shaping, and HPF etc....after a few days I pulled the Felix out of the loop,...between the simple knobs of the V8- treble, bass, and VariZ a huge wide pallette of eq is available and the Felix eq did nothing additive. THe HPF was not any better or more effective then the V8 the Pari mid and other eq on the Felix added nothing to the stellar sound of the V8. I keep thinking for some insane reason that it should be more complicated then it needs to be and I keep coming back to this utterly brilliant upright bass preamp. The V8 is the best preamp I have played thru and does not need anything else. With my new pickup configuration of one in phase and one out of phase Yamahiko, the raw sound is VERY acoustic yet very bass intense. With the VeriZ imp/HPF knob (on gigs in real rooms duos trios quartets) the thickness of the bass can be thinned to where ever you want it, while the mids and highs are just so well placed that really the VeriZ becomes the only perameter to dial in a great sound. Add treble and it sounds damn mic like, add back a little bass and adjust for any room (so far). I am amazed that I have to pay so little attention to knobs anymore.
 
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#113
The bass is always too loud with a pickup. The reason is that the radiated sound of a DB contains less bass because the top is too small to radiate it well. To simulate that with a pickup at the bridge or close to it you need to attenuate the bass frequencies.
There might be some pickups or mics when micing close to the top that are weak in the transformation of bass frequencies and often sound better with no EQ, but that does not mean that they sound better than a well transfixing pickup after being EQed. The corner frequency of mic/pickup and amp bass EQ is not adjustable, so it is more or less luck if it works well or not.
 
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#114
flatback said:
I know I am a broken record about this incredible preamp, but after a conversation with a well known bass amp Guru who was idealizing about the need for the ultimate hybrid preamp that would have a tube front end with a super surgical SS eq I have played some with the Felix plugged in after the V8 (to emulate that)...to have access to the studio eq, surgical mid shaping, and HPF etc....after a few days I pulled the Felix out of the loop,...between the simple knobs of the V8- treble, bass, and VariZ a huge wide pallette of eq is available and the Felix eq did nothing additive. THe HPF was not any better or more effective then the V8 the Pari mid and other eq on the Felix added nothing to the stellar sound of the V8. I keep thinking for some insane reason that it should be more complicated then it needs to be and I keep coming back to this utterly brilliant upright bass preamp. The V8 is the best preamp I have played thru and does not need anything else. With my new pickup configuration of one in phase and one out of phase Yamahiko, the raw sound is VERY acoustic yet very bass intense. With the VeriZ imp/HPF knob (on gigs in real rooms duos trios quartets) the thickness of the bass can be thinned to where ever you want it, while the mids and highs are just so well placed that really the VeriZ becomes the only perameter to dial in a great sound. Add treble and it sounds damn mic like, add back a little bass and adjust for any room (so far). I am amazed that I have to pay so little attention to knobs anymore.
Click to expand...

Great, I think you've found your setup, congratulations. I get a wonderful sound out of the Grace Felix with the Ehrlund EAP. So, different strokes for different folks. I get all kinds of Midrange varations from the Felix's three control midrange, setup and I can taylor the low end

to be respectfully full but, not boomy. Mike's Cabinets seem to be the magic in the equasion, because of their consistency and the way they handle each notes profile (attack, sustain, decay, and release) You get this great tone without having blurred notes running into

each other at fast tempos or having to much sustain with the bow or on ballads. I just switch out the cabinet depending on the size venue I'm performing at. Adding the Sarno Black Box to this setup would be ideal, once funds are available.
 
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#115
DoubleMIDI said:
The bass is always too loud with a pickup. The reason is that the radiated sound of a DB contains less bass because the top is too small to radiate it well. To simulate that with a pickup at the bridge or close to it you need to attenuate the bass frequencies.
There might be some pickups or mics when micing close to the top that are weak in the transformation of bass frequencies and often sound better with no EQ, but that does not mean that they sound better than a well transfixing pickup after being EQed. The corner frequency of mic/pickup and amp bass EQ is not adjustable, so it is more or less luck if it works well or not.
Click to expand...
This is a very important statement and I wonder how many bassists who use pickups realize this? It improved my amplified sound when I started using an HPF and/or turning down the bass knob. Much more natural. It is also why I prefer to bridge both sides of the Yamahiko on my very bass heavy Juzek - the phase cancellation reduces the bass to a more reasonable level. Then all I need to do is reduce the mids a bit for a very mic like sound.
 
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#116
Earl said:
This is a very important statement and I wonder how many bassists who use pickups realize this? It improved my amplified sound when I started using an HPF and/or turning down the bass knob. Much more natural. It is also why I prefer to bridge both sides of the Yamahiko on my very bass heavy Juzek - the phase cancellation reduces the bass to a more reasonable level. Then all I need to do is reduce the mids a bit for a very mic like sound.
Click to expand...
I've been getting an extremely nice organic, mic-like sound out of just one Yamahiko on the E side. Tubes rock, fo sho! Can a guy my age get by with "fo sho?" :)
 
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#118
I've been playing with this new old pickup and it has a way different base volume, I guess you would say, ...the Yamahiko is a super hot signal, while the Wilson is much lower. Anyway it got me fooling with the gain knob of the V8. With the Wilson I can drive the tube way harder (and keep the amp low) but it has a serious effect on the sound. The V8 isn't designed for distortion so it doesn't get overdriven,...just driven. It sounds really nice with the Wilson. I love the few knobs of the V8. The eq and gain and the tubes are just so great to play thru.
 
#120
Yeah I have to save my questions for Brad because he is so busy. Stupid questions he just does not answer which I am grateful for. But when I asked about a dual Ch V8 he got back and sounded intrigued..."seed planted" he said.
I've been thinking... should such a 2 ch Octal be just two of what is there? OR more of a Felix Headway mic/blend with XLR and phantom?
My thought is the simple two ch V8 just the way it is. Why? because it is doable and simple and if you need to have the mic in the second Ch then there are great pre's both big and small and the top of the V8 has plenty of real estate to plant one on (I sometimes have the Felix sitting on top and it works great) but to split up a multi pickup and get the Vari Z on both or two different pickups (and some kind of 180 phase dial would be great) such a two ch Octal beast perfect for upright
I have tried both the Yama and K4 into each the BB and V8 and then into the Felix...I know it's nuts but man did it sound good. With a 2 ch V8 with Phase dial and Vari Z it would be totally unique and incredibly useful. Also as a doubling Preamp, just killin.
 
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