Broughton SV-Pre vs Master Effects Super 300

[bassnyc1]

I'm at it again!

I bought an Origin Effects Bassrig Super Vintage about 5 weeks ago. Bottom line: I don't like it. It's past the 30.day return period so I'm going to try to sell it.
I own both an Ampeg SCR-DI and its little brother, the Ampeg Classic pedal. The SCR-DI is too heavy to cart around and the classic doesn't have enough gain and setting the volume past 2 o'clock makes it distort. I actually prefer the sound of both of them to the Bassrig. So, I'm going to sell the Bassrig.
I'm now looking at these 2 pedals in the title. Anyone have experience with both?

 

[wolfkeller]

My experience = small size= tech 21 vtdi sounds like an svt and larger = sgt sounds even better! I use real svts live and these at home or fill in/rehearsals

 

[bassnyc1]

I forgot to mention: I have been using a Tech 21 VTDI for more than 10 years. It's an indispensable part of my live sound. My questions in my previous post are for a pedalboard.

 

[bass player 53]

So, I have both of those, and one more.
All three builders are good, and they’ve tried hard to recreate the sound of an SVT. Since you’re an SVT user, would you agree that there are a few varieties of SVT’s and SVT sounds? And, would you agree that part of that sound comes from the cabinet? There are many discussions on TB about the cabinet being an integral part of a B15 and SVT sound. There is also a somewhat divided opinion about cab sims.
I have concluded that these pedals will take you somewhat close, but you have to manage your expectations. Most here have concluded too, that a big part of the SVT sound is characterized by the mid frequencies. All of these pedals put emphasis on that.

 

[bassnyc1]

Yes, I recognize that there's more than just one Ampeg sound. I became convinced that the cab Sim was an integral part of the sound so that's why I forked over (what I think is) a lot of cash for the Bassrig. It's a fine piece of gear and high quality, too. Unfortunately it isn't doing what I hope. It breaks up far too quickly. If I turn the drive all the way off and max out the volume, it's not loud enough. Bringing up the drive past 9:00 and it starts to distort. I hoped it would be cleaner. Anyway, that's why I'm asking for more opinions about other options. I like the way the Ampeg Classic pedal sounds, just louder and a bit higher quality.

 

[bass player 53]

Well, there are several videos that,
I believe, represent these pedals well.
I’ll note that Broughton Audio makes a separate cab sim called the mini fridge cab sim, and Sushi Box FX has an
updated version of his pedal, called
Redacted II.

A couple of examples; there are more.

 

[sunbeast]

Yes, I recognize that there's more than just one Ampeg sound. I became convinced that the cab Sim was an integral part of the sound so that's why I forked over (what I think is) a lot of cash for the Bassrig. It's a fine piece of gear and high quality, too. Unfortunately it isn't doing what I hope. It breaks up far too quickly. If I turn the drive all the way off and max out the volume, it's not loud enough. Bringing up the drive past 9:00 and it starts to distort. I hoped it would be cleaner. Anyway, that's why I'm asking for more opinions about other options. I like the way the Ampeg Classic pedal sounds, just louder and a bit higher quality.

What kind of volume do you need from the pedal in reality? Are you trying to push a power amp or some other device looking for full rackmount line-level? Are you boosting your signal significantly before the Super Vintage (like from the VTDI)? Keep in mind any boosting at one pedal will limit the range of headroom on the next and the next, and so on.

I use the Super Vintage at low Drive settings and have no problem achieving unity or above (usually my Volume doesn't get above noon with the Drive around 10 o'clock for a signal slightly above unity gain). Keep in mind that since it is built to emulate an early SVT that the main EQ settings will affect how much drive and the character of the drive as well (the clipping is "power amp" drive) so the Drive may have to be adjusted, particularly when boosting bass or lower midrange (and boosting treble or high-midrange will tend to make the drive more brash). I do agree that the Bassrig pedals would probably benefit from spreading the lower-gain ranges over a larger part of the Drive sweep, but it hasn't been hard to adapt IMO and it’s actually not unrealistic to the actual non-Master SVT IME. Honestly as a Master 300 owner I think you may have similar issues with that pedal if you are in need of a large clean boost.

 

[InnerCityBass]

Yes, I recognize that there's more than just one Ampeg sound. I became convinced that the cab Sim was an integral part of the sound so that's why I forked over (what I think is) a lot of cash for the Bassrig. It's a fine piece of gear and high quality, too. Unfortunately it isn't doing what I hope. It breaks up far too quickly. If I turn the drive all the way off and max out the volume, it's not loud enough. Bringing up the drive past 9:00 and it starts to distort. I hoped it would be cleaner. Anyway, that's why I'm asking for more opinions about other options. I like the way the Ampeg Classic pedal sounds, just louder and a bit higher quality.

You're aware that the Origin Effects BassRig pedals are simply reactive to how hot a signal you put into it, just like any real amp? I have the BassRig '64, and for one bass I have, with a very hot pickup, the drive channel will begin to break up at 9, but with my more standard output Jazz Bass the breakup starts around 12 - both of those two basses are passive, I can only imagine how soon it breaks up with a boostet active bass. The solution is to balance your input level before it hits you bassRig Super Vintage

 

[bassnyc1]

I am trying to use the Bassrig 2 different ways:
First, I run my Rickenbacker in stereo. I planned for the Bassrig to be for the neck pickup so I wanted a clean, almost McCartney sound. The bridge pickup gets the VTDI with a bit of drive in there. They both go into my Boss LS-2 and out to the amps effects return. The problem I've had is trying to balance the Bassrig with the VTDI.
The other way is using the Bassrig by itself with my other basses. I run my bass into the Bassrig and again to the amp's effects return. The problem I've had with that is it's too woofy and the bit of drive I'm hoping for is too muddy.
When you put the Bassrig into the effects return, only the volume from the Bassrig is controlling the overall volume. I can't get it loud enough without using the drive.

 

[burgerdj]

I had the Broughton SVPRE for a while, searching for a smaller footprint that gave me a similar tone to my SA PBDDI. It’s a great piece of kit and very well built. To me, it really shines if you’re going for a furry tone as if you’re pushing a tube amp to the rails. Ultimately I moved it along because I wasn’t able to find the defined chunky presence of the PBDDI. I’m still on that journey!

 

[bass player 53]

FWIW, I posted this video a few years ago when the pedals in question started to come out. There isn’t much distortion because????

 

[bassnyc1]

You're aware that the Origin Effects BassRig pedals are simply reactive to how hot a signal you put into it, just like any real amp? I have the BassRig '64, and for one bass I have, with a very hot pickup, the drive channel will begin to break up at 9, but with my more standard output Jazz Bass the breakup starts around 12 - both of those two basses are passive, I can only imagine how soon it breaks up with a boostet active bass. The solution is to balance your input level before it hits you bassRig Super Vintage

Maybe I should experiment a bit more. I used the Bassrig mostly with my active 5 string. At home it sounded awesome with my P Bass. My passive jazz basses were okay. I've figured out a pretty good setting for my Ric with the mono output. Unfortunately my main gig these days is using my Valenti 5 string which has a Sadowsky preamp in it. I know that stacking preamps is not always the best thing.

 

[Gervais Cote]

I don’t know if that will be helpful for you but here I go :

I went through a long journey in terms of pedals and effects and never been very satisfied, to a point where I decided to get rid of everything and play straight into the amp.

Then I told myself, what bass do I play the most, what songs and styles I wanna play and more importantly, what sounds do I want ?

I realized that I play my p bass 90% of time and just need 3 sounds : the clean one without any effect, the Deep Purple bass sound and the Ronnie James Dio bass sound. That’s it.

Then I talked to my music buddies and ended up with that minimalist pedalboard as per the picture below.

The black Night Owl pedal gives me the Deep Purple sound and the Super 300 is bang on for the Dio tone. I don’t use both together as it really gets too dirty for me.

My favorite is the Night Owl but both my drummer and lead guitar had their jaw dropping when I tried the Super 300 for the first time. Can’t recommend it enough. Oh, I should also mention it’s extremely well built and bulletproof.

 

[bass player 53]

I don’t know if that will be helpful for you but here I go :

I went through a long journey in terms of pedals and effects and never been very satisfied, to a point where I decided to get rid of everything and play straight into the amp.

Then I told myself, what bass do I play the most, what songs and styles I wanna play and more importantly, what sounds do I want ?

I realized that I play my p bass 90% of time and just need 3 sounds : the clean one without any effect, the Deep Purple bass sound and the Ronnie James Dio bass sound. That’s it.

Then I talked to my music buddies and ended up with that minimalist pedalboard as per the picture below.

The black Night Owl pedal gives me the Deep Purple sound and the Super 300 is bang on for the Dio tone. I don’t use both together as it really gets too dirty for me.

My favorite is the Night Owl but both my drummer and lead guitar had their jaw dropping when I tried the Super 300 for the first time. Can’t recommend it enough. Oh, I should also mention it’s extremely well built and bulletproof.


View attachment 7531542

So, you’re saying that you use the Super 300 for the Black Sabbath, Metal kind of sound?
If I understand the OP, he wants more volume with less breakup and distortion.

 

[Gervais Cote]

So, you’re saying that you use the Super 300 for the Black Sabbath, Metal kind of sound?
If I understand the OP, he wants more volume with less breakup and distortion.

The Super 300 is very versatile and can do a lot of things, it’s just that I don’t play with it once I get my Dio sound.

For only more volume and less breakup and distortion, my preference would be my "basic" Night Owl black pedal. It’s a single tube pedal with a dark/bright toggle switch and a volume. Not as versatile as the Super 300 but a good starting point to tweak a tone.

 

[bass player 53]

The Super 300 is very versatile and can do a lot of things, it’s just that I don’t play with it once I get my Dio sound.

For only more volume and less breakup and distortion, my preference would be my "basic" Night Owl black pedal. It’s a single tube pedal with a dark/bright toggle switch and a volume. Not as versatile as the Super 300 but a good starting point to tweak a tone.

Yes, I understand, thanks. I have a bunch of tube and solid state boost pedals, preamps, and light to heavy overdrive pedals as well. I have the tube Broughton Super Stack, and Sushi Box FX Westinghouse (probably similar to the Night Owl), a bunch more Sushi preamps, and some B15 sounding pedals.

 

[bassnyc1]

Yeah, as it's been previously mentioned, there are several "Ampeg" tones. A lot of people immediately think of an overdrive tone. For me, it's a smooth, non distorted sound yet it's unmistakably Ampeg. I've played numerous Ampeg amps over my 41 years of playing and that's what I like. I chose the Bassrig Super Vintage over the Fifteen or the Black panel because from the sound samples I've seen, I thought I could get it easily. Unfortunately as I've said, It breaks up to quickly in its volume rotation for my tastes.

I was considering the ME Super 300 before getting the Bassrig. I've also recently come across the Broughton SV-Pre. I have no idea about the Sushi Box.

 

[bass player 53]

There’s a large Sushi Box thread on TB.
You can contact Nathan directly, or ask a question and he will answer shortly.
Maybe he has some insight.
You can use the TB search for discussions about the SVBT and Redacted II pedals. There are also some YT videos.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-sushi-box-fx-secret-society.

 

[sunbeast]

I am trying to use the Bassrig 2 different ways:
First, I run my Rickenbacker in stereo. I planned for the Bassrig to be for the neck pickup so I wanted a clean, almost McCartney sound. The bridge pickup gets the VTDI with a bit of drive in there. They both go into my Boss LS-2 and out to the amps effects return. The problem I've had is trying to balance the Bassrig with the VTDI.
The other way is using the Bassrig by itself with my other basses. I run my bass into the Bassrig and again to the amp's effects return. The problem I've had with that is it's too woofy and the bit of drive I'm hoping for is too muddy.
When you put the Bassrig into the effects return, only the volume from the Bassrig is controlling the overall volume. I can't get it loud enough without using the drive.

When doing the Ric-o-sound setup, you have the two levels of the VT and the SV plus the two levels on the LS-2. To me it should be as simple as setting the pedal volumes for something just around unity gain or a bit higher then getting your preferred balance with the Levels on the LS-2.

For the FX Return option- what amp are you using? Most amps have their Master Volume after the FX Loop so you should still have volume control on the amp, it’s pretty rare to have the master volume come before the FX loop because then raising it would hit the pedals in the loop harder which makes no sense. I’ve had no issues driving the FX Loops of both my Mesa Walkabout and WD800 with either the Origin Super Vintage or the Origin Fifteen. As far as “woofy” drive, as mentioned before the EQ on the Super Vintage (unlike the VTDI or most Sansamp products- apart from the “Character” control which is usually a pre-Gain midrange) comes before the clipping- so boosting Bass will tend to make a fartier and less-tight drive sound as well as add more gain. If you want more edge then pump the Mids (at the middle or too frequencies) and or Treble and lower the Bass and/or Drive.

 

[sunbeast]

Yeah, as it's been previously mentioned, there are several "Ampeg" tones. A lot of people immediately think of an overdrive tone. For me, it's a smooth, non distorted sound yet it's unmistakably Ampeg. I've played numerous Ampeg amps over my 41 years of playing and that's what I like. I chose the Bassrig Super Vintage over the Fifteen or the Black panel because from the sound samples I've seen, I thought I could get it easily. Unfortunately as I've said, It breaks up to quickly in its volume rotation for my tastes.

I was considering the ME Super 300 before getting the Bassrig. I've also recently come across the Broughton SV-Pre. I have no idea about the Sushi Box.

The earliest release of the Master Effects Super 300 had the “clean” range at about 1-2 out of 10 on the Gain- that was a problem for sure. He modified it (and I modded mine with a new pot to match the newer version) so now that same range is up to maybe 11 o’clock. Still there isn’t huge clean boost on tap using the Master if that’s what you are after (IIRC it isn’t louder than the Super Vintage though I’d have to do a direct shootout).

I should have mentioned earlier that you’ll also want to turn the Blend on the Super Vintage all the way up for the most volume (ie no clean signal blended in).