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Cab sims
- Thread starter TheArchitect
- Start date
nothing is a requirement, but I get what you're saying. using IEM's, I prefer to have a cab sim, as it sounds more like an amplified bass. I hate the clanky clacky di sound though. I use amp and cab sims. it makes me happier. as long as the sound-person gets something usable, we are all good.
I have found I have to tamp down the "bass" more than usual, so it doesn't get boomy. and I usually HPF at about 60-40hz
I have found I have to tamp down the "bass" more than usual, so it doesn't get boomy. and I usually HPF at about 60-40hz
Adamixoye
A PT Pro is cool for worship, right?
- Apr 9, 2012
- 18,158
- 69,338
- Disclosures
- Occasional Beta Tester for Confusion Studios, Singular Sound, and Source Audio
I am wondering if it because of (a) the frequency range and (b) the nature of guitar cabs. That is, guitar signals cover a focused frequency range a little more noticeable to our ears and guitar cabs typically leave a stronger imprint on what is produced. Whereas bass covers a wide range of frequencies (with an obvious focus on the less-distinguishable lows) and you can get a decent, hi-fi bass sound with a flat response, full-range speaker.
I am just spitballing with that explanation, though.
My recollection is that bassists have been a little bit slow to embrace IR technology since it is not necessarily needed, especially if the type of bass tone is clean and pristine, with little or no distortion present or desired. It is more beneficial when the bass tone has a fair and obvious amount of distortion, where it is not complimented by ultra-high frequencies.
Or, when a mic'd amp tone is simply preferable vs. a pure DI tone. Pure DI, mic'd cabinet, and cab IR/sim are all valid methods.
Guitarists who have been on the modeling bandwagon (digital or otherwise, such as the SansAmp products, which use analog filters rather than digital IRs), for the better part of 25 years running, understand that the cabinet simulation is an essential part of the equation when running guitar tones from a DI, presumably from some sort of preamp or modeler, rather than mic'ing a cabinet. This is especially true for overdriven tones.
Keep in mind that cab IR technology is specifically designed for a destination (speaker system or IEM) that is full range.
If you want to continue to use a traditional stage amp, but want to feed a DI to the mixing desk as the primary signal to be amplified in the PA and stage monitoring system, the IR is the way to go (via a split feed, post-effects & preamp, but pre-speaker cabinet).
Or, when a mic'd amp tone is simply preferable vs. a pure DI tone. Pure DI, mic'd cabinet, and cab IR/sim are all valid methods.
Guitarists who have been on the modeling bandwagon (digital or otherwise, such as the SansAmp products, which use analog filters rather than digital IRs), for the better part of 25 years running, understand that the cabinet simulation is an essential part of the equation when running guitar tones from a DI, presumably from some sort of preamp or modeler, rather than mic'ing a cabinet. This is especially true for overdriven tones.
Keep in mind that cab IR technology is specifically designed for a destination (speaker system or IEM) that is full range.
If you want to continue to use a traditional stage amp, but want to feed a DI to the mixing desk as the primary signal to be amplified in the PA and stage monitoring system, the IR is the way to go (via a split feed, post-effects & preamp, but pre-speaker cabinet).
It’s not uncommon for preamps that have some dirt built in to also bundle a cab sim. SansAmps, for example, do, as well as its knockoffs (Behringer BDI21, Caline Wine Cellar, Dr J Sparrow, etc. ). The Le Bass & new Revolt, EBS Microbass 2, Darkglass Alpha Omega Ultra, and Nux MLD do, as well. The DSM & Humboldt Bass Simplifier has a couple to choose from. There are certainly others, but it’s definitely hit or miss and I’m not sure any boutique preamp has one (although they may have LPF/HPF controls, which might cover the same territory).
I think the reason it’s not “standard” is a combination of dirt not being universal with bassists and DIing being pretty standard practice at this point. Any sound person should already have a pretty good handle on low and high pass filters on the bass DI. I would have to assume the frequencies are easier to tame, as well.
I think the reason it’s not “standard” is a combination of dirt not being universal with bassists and DIing being pretty standard practice at this point. Any sound person should already have a pretty good handle on low and high pass filters on the bass DI. I would have to assume the frequencies are easier to tame, as well.
I'm the one guy that doesn't care for their stuff. The sansamp classic was decent for bass but the bass specific stuff is too scooped and bass boosted for my taste.
I use my Alpha/Omega cab sim sometimes when recording, and when it fits, it can really help focus the sound. I refuse to plug a computer into an amp head, so I just toggle through the three default settings. The other day, though, I just plugged my bass right into my Keeley Bassist compressor and then directly into my interface, and it sounded huge. I added some eq and some more compression ITB, though.
I get the sense that live sound people prefer to get a pre-eq signal rather than an eq'd, cab sim signal.
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Historically, in the guitar and bass communities, you used an amp and speaker, giving you a built in IR that has a low pass filter (the most important part of the IR). Now, with tons of people going ampless, if you have any sort of dirt, or you play with clink and clank in your technique, you really need that low pass filter in some form. Luckily, any decent low pass filter (2 poles works fine) will do, so long as you can dial it in. Broughton makes a good one, and the Source Audio EQ2 does (in addition to a high pass, parametric eq, and a TUNER!) a good low pass - that thing is indispensable to my sound at this point - 4 necessary functions in 1 package, all done well.
I actually don't want a real speaker IR - I don't want the bottom end rolloff of a cabinet in my rig - a simple high pass way down low to get rid of subsonic stiff is just fine, thank you. I play 5's through very capable PA's, and I need my low B as unmolested as I can get it.
I actually don't want a real speaker IR - I don't want the bottom end rolloff of a cabinet in my rig - a simple high pass way down low to get rid of subsonic stiff is just fine, thank you. I play 5's through very capable PA's, and I need my low B as unmolested as I can get it.
I have similar feelings about the SansAmp BDDI.
The Tech 21 Q Strip is pretty cool... NOT a SansAmp thing. Meaning there is no amp simulation.
It's like a channel strip. It does have a LPF and HPF that, if engaged, are kind of like a cab sim.
The Aguilar ToneHammer AGS or Drive looks pretty much like a cab sim to me. There is some gain things happening (especially with the AGS on the DI version), but if you keep the gain low, it's basically a filter that looks to me a bit like a cab sim.
I guess both of those examples would be tweeterless cabs.
Could not agree more about the LPF.
There is a lot of love for HPFs (at least on TB) these days.
When I joined TB, the big thing was cabs that could handle tons of watts and put out massive low end. I think some of the use of HPFs came out of the use of cabs and the mega watt amps that have the headroom to produce all that low end. All IMO. Of course in the "old days," the limitations of amps and cabs would have taken care of a lot of that.
Anyway, I would much rather have a LPF to simulate a bass cab - especially when the sound guy puts your bass through the monitors and it's all clank.
Interesting - I was just looking at the Berg HP amp, and it has a global LPF that always goes to the speaker out and DI out (pre or post), and the HPF that only goes to the speaker output. That makes a lot of sense to me.
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I don't use a cab sim per say but, I do have a HPF before my DI set to 60. It helps keep me out of the kick drum.
I love using IRs to record. My head and B7K don't have cab sims on the DI out so I let the sound guy (if there is one) handle that.
Some bassists like super hi fi sounds. I don’t, especially getting past 5k, and that’s whether I play clean or dirty. So my DI line has a cab sim on it.
skyline_01
Endorsing artist: Nordstrand Audio, Tsunami Cables
As some have mentioned, HPF/LPF can make for a sort of cab sim. I run the Broughton pedal always on, with just the sub stuff shaved off with the HPF and the LPF set around 5k or so.
I often use IEMs and so far I've found this setup pretty satisfactory. A tube DI is also the last thing in my chain, so that certainly couldn't hurt anything.
I often use IEMs and so far I've found this setup pretty satisfactory. A tube DI is also the last thing in my chain, so that certainly couldn't hurt anything.
