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Can't seem to get a good direct guitar track...

tothemax

tothemax

Supporting Member
Nov 1, 2013
1,467
1,706
Annapolis Area
#1
Realizing this is a bass forum, this is more of a recording question. Btw: my DI bass tone is excellent, but can't get a direct guitar sound. I normally start a project with a drum machine, a basic guitar rhythm, and a guide vocal. When I reorganized my studio I lost the space where I used to surround a guitar amp with padded blankets as a quasi ISO box. I've been trying to do DI version and picked up an inexpensive amp in box pedal (Joyo American Sound, it has really great reviews for this use). What sounds OK through an amp sounds pretty bad direct, either direct into an instrument input on my interface or through a DI Box (Hosa Sidekick).

My signal chain is guitar --> American sound --> MXR 10 channel EQ pedal --> Delay \Reverb pedal --> DI box or direct to USB interface --> DAW channel, cabinet sim plugin.

With this combination I can get a pretty decent sound, but when it is a clear volume in the headphones it's clipping in the DAW, with occasional pops in the phones. I was thinking my be pre related. But with the Tascam US 16x08 I get decent vocal recording and mic'd amp sounds. I only use the guitar as basic click track to lay out the song, but it is frustrating to not be able to get a functional tone. My brain says GAS is not the answer, I'm doing something wrong. With those initial 3 tracks I wouldn't think it would require a headphone mix so I could hear the guitar track... Also, on playback the guitar sound is much better than during recording, not sure why.

Would really appreciate any input on this...
 
#2
Was searching the web when I found this blog with the same error... The solution was an inexpensive Behringer Active DI. For $29 I'm willing to take a chance, ordered one today. Hoping this will resolve the issue. For bass I use the XLR DI out from my Ampeg BA210v2, and it sounds great (and mic the amp). The DI bass track with an SVT plugin sounds great. Eventually I'll build a true ISO cab, but until then I'd like to have a headphone option for guitar tracks.

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#3
When recording guitar, I always go guitar --> distortion --> USB interface --> DAW. It sounds good to me. If I want other effects on the track, I apply them later with plugins.
 
#4
My troubleshooting approach is, simply everything down to the absolute minimum and (if that works okay) add things back one piece at a time until it breaks.

Looking at the manual for your Tascam 16x08 it has 16 inputs, but only two of them are "instrument" inputs, and you have to flip a little switch from 'Line' to 'Inst.'

I would start by plugging my guitar straight into input 9 or 10 (and make sure the switch is flipped to 'Inst'). No pedals. No EQ. No reverb. No cab sim. No plugins in your DAW. This should sound reasonably good, with no clipping, distortion, or excessive noise. If it sounds bad, stop and troubleshoot why.

Once you achieve a clean tone with just the guitar, then methodically add the pedals and plugins, one at a time, until you figure out which one is causing the problem.

(The Behringer DI box is arguably redundant since your Tascam already has 2 built in DI's. The -20dB pad is the same thing as turning the Tascam's gain knob to -20dB for that input. The Tascam has an overload indicator LED for each input, that should give you a visual indication if you are clipping the channel. According to the manual, these inputs have a 45dB gain range, which should give you ample range to prevent clipping.)
 
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#5
What @CatOnTheBass said.

Start with making your signal chain:
Guitar -> Interface -> DAW Channel (no sim plugin)

Then add 1 thing into the chain, each time until you find the "weak link."

I'm also thinking you have something set up incorrectly in your gain staging. I don't know what DAW you're using, but the headphone volume should be independent from the gain setting the level in the track. You want the input gain for the pre on your interface averaging about -12dB to -6dB, and then with the fader at unity, the DAW should be reading the same level as your pre. Then the headphones should just outputting the main out (or headphone mix out if you have different mixes for mains and headphones) and the headphone volume should just be a volume for how loud that mix is in your cans, and not controlling any levels. It sounds like you're trying to crank the gain up somewhere to make the cans louder, when you should just be turning up the volume for the headphones and leaving the gain at the correct levels on the VU meters.

Also, check to see if your pedals are outputting Instrument or Line Level, and then make sure your interface input is set to that level.
 
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#6
Appreciate the input.

I've done a fair amount of recording with this interface. I am using inputs 9 & 10 set to instrument. I've used those channels direct for my bass (Fender P - passive) it works, but is pretty meh. Using the XLR DI out from the Ampeg gives me a great sound, very useable as is. Adding the SVT plugin and it's a very decent bass tone.

Guitar seems to be a different beast, direct into either 9 or 10, has that "boingy" digital ring and is not a useable tone. Single coil or HB doesn't make any difference. I use a minimal pedal board, Xotic EP booster, a Distortion, and a MXR delay - I usually leave the EP booster on. Going direct in from my board was better, but not much. This is the same signal I send to my VOX AC 15 amp. I keep a Hosa Sidekick DI in my gig bag so I added that and ran XLR into the interface, an improvement but still pretty poor.

The mini board I put together has a Tube Screamer (normally off), the American Sound, MXR EQ, and a Reverb/Delay pedal. This signal chain direct to channel 9 has provided the best results, but as the blog source reported - "the tone is muddy, compressed, and acts like it is too hot".

I watched a number of videos giving the American Sound pedal very decent reviews for direct recording, and a better tone with the addition of a reverb/delay and an amp sim plugin in the DAW. In the video below, the guy gets a decent tone. There are a lot of videos singing the praises of this Joyo pedal. Anything close to that would be great.

​
 
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#8
tothemax said:
Guitar seems to be a different beast, direct into either 9 or 10, has that "boingy" digital ring and is not a useable tone. Single coil or HB doesn't make any difference.
Click to expand...

Plugging your guitar straight into the interface should sound exactly like your guitar. If it doesn't sound exactly like your guitar, then something is wrong. If you're not using any effects or plugins, then what is causing the "boingy digital ring" sound?

Are you sure there's not some kind of plugin or processing happening in your DAW? I had a similar incident just last week: my bass didn't sound good in the headphones, and it turned out the engineer accidentally put a chorus effect on the monitor mix.

If your interface has a "direct monitoring" feature, maybe try using that instead of monitoring through your DAW.
 
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#9
What is your monitoring chain? Are you recording and monitoring the sound from the DAW out or direct pre, or a mixture? What is your DAW?

When I record I set my input levels to PEAK at -15 (not average). I don't need a hot signal and I can always gain compensate later.

Sounds like you need a better monitoring setup. I use a separate headphone amp that I can get a better mix in. I run the output from my FR18i20 through the presonus headphone amp. I also can either select a dry mix pre-DAW or output after signal going through DAW. Which I use depends on the situation.
 
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#10
It is making me a little nuts, my DAW is Cakewalk (Sonar) and I've been using it for the last few years. When I create a new track I don't add any effects and I'm grabbing my headphone signal from the interface.
If I record a track with a mic'd amp it comes out fine. My goal here is to have a decent direct guitar sound for recording with headphones that won't bleed into the vocal track (like a mic'd amp in the room).
I'm heading out the studio and will record few samples...
 
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#13
It's hard to beat the sound of a mic'd Vox AC-15. I'm not sure what the issue was earlier with the pedal setup, might have been a bad cable. As I mentioned, before I rearranged my studio with a new workstation I had a corner space where I built a thick tent of moving blankets around my AC-15 amp and mic'd it with an SM57 (makeshift ISO booth). I used it for headphone recording and practice sessions. It worked great and I got a good sound. With the new workstation, I lost that extra space in the room (my studio is 12x16).

New_Workstation.png
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Until I have the time to build a real ISO cab I was looking for a headphone amp solution. With the Joyo pedal board working this is great. My bandmates and I will will sometimes practice in the studio, and having a headphone option is really helpful to keep practices productive. I was surprised how good the amp in box setup sounds once it started working...

Thanks for the input on this...
 
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#17
I was able to get some time in the studio the other day and after the time spent on the headphone setup sound, decided it was time to just play live a bit and get a good dose of decent amp tone. Results were good, it seems sometimes you need to go back and re-calibrate your ears. Spending considerable time with headphones and simulated amps can throw you off a bit.
 

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