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caught between stock and dimarzio

S

shatner

Sep 22, 2004
90
0
51
Isle Of Wight, UK
www.markjsmithbass.com
#1
I am wondering whether anyone has had the same problem.

I have a Marcus Fender Jazz and needed to get rid of the awful single coil hum (I work under extreme lighting). Bought Dimarzio Ultra Jazz pickups and a J retro preamp. A guy at the bass centre told me I should beware because the sound will be completely different. I told him that I wasn't bothered because I wanted to get rid of the hum.

Anyway, the pickups did solve the hum and sound amazing for slapping. The Marcus sound is right there. However, it is not so good for fingerstyle because of the scooped mids. I have a Sansamp RBI which can't compensate for it because the scoop seems to occupy a different frequency area to the mid control and I can't even find it on my J retro with a parametric mid.

I am tempted to go back to my original stock pickups because the bass is just not cutting through enough and the tone is too bass heavy. It sounds great solo but in a band context just does not work for me. But I like the slap sound and do need to slap in some songs.

I play a variety of styles from Jazz to C&W and Rock so need diversity of tone. Can anyone recommend any pickups that are more transparent and better for a broader range of applications?

Mark
 
#4
bgavin said:
The DiMarzio Model J offer the same hum cancellation, but more mids.
Click to expand...

Amen brother!

When I swapped out my stock P+J yamaha pickups for the Model Js, I couldn't believe the mids on those puppies. The bridge J pickup, the stock one was completely useless by itself. Now it does the Jaco thing with ease :)

Try the Model J's... no hum, tons of mids, and you can wire them in parallel or series (each pickup) to suit your definition vs oomph needs.
 
#7
FWIW:

I must be DM J impaired cause I keep missing them when they come up cheap so can't say about them but have gotten the impression they're probably darker than MM's - but seems everybody likes them. I've had two sets of MM's and one set of SD Classic Stacks and the Classic Stacks were more like the first set of MM's than the second set of MM's. Very high quality vintage Fender single J tone. In fact the only HB's I've had so far with a true single J tone. No hum and you have 4 lead w/ground wiring for more tone options if you want it.

Another pup I'd consider is Fender noiseless. Have yet to have a set of those either but what I've read about them has my expectations peaked.

The pups I've had that have had slap burns were as you described for the ultras so I'm guessing a scooped pup is what works for slap. You might try the ultra's through an ampeg before ditching them and see what you get. I've been exploring a bit with some different amps lately and I've experienced lots of bass with piercing top end and no mids to speak of - not appealing for fingerstyle.
 
#8
maybe its my amp setup, but I don't find my ultra J's all that scooped.
I do find they have a lot of bottom and I really have to eq out a lot for clarity, but I find the mids and highs to be very level.

I'll be adding a bart pre-amp right away to see if that doesn't make everything nice and even.

Maybe my ears are crazy, I'm pretty sure the rest of me already is.
 
#15
So far it will be a choice between the Nordstrands, Barts and Dimarzio Model J's.

Which are the most transparent?

The Nordstrand descriptions sound pretty much in the right tonal ballpark. I don't want TOO much bass. The Ultra Jazz's have TONS of bass. The only description I would use is 'hollow'. But they are amazing for slapping.

The way I see it is I just want the pickups to reproduce the sound of my bass in an uncoloured way because I can change the tone with the J east and my sansamp later.

One other thing, I would like more output. Which of the above pickups are the hottest in that area?

Are the Lindy Fralins transparent and have I overlooked any that would fit my needs such as the Seymour Duncans or EMG's?
 
#16
shatner said:
So far it will be a choice between the Nordstrands, Barts and Dimarzio Model J's.
Click to expand...

I find that my Nordstrands are quite transparent. I dial in my tone with my J-Retro. I don't have highly trained ears, but they sound beautiful to me. I can dial in some lows, and they sound excellent without being too boomy or thunderous.

What did you think of the review SMASH did on Jazz pups? If you haven't read it, you should. It is most excellent. I even read the reviews on pups I had no intention of buying.

-Mike
 
#17
shatner said:
So far it will be a choice between the Nordstrands, Barts and Dimarzio Model J's.

Which are the most transparent?

The Nordstrand descriptions sound pretty much in the right tonal ballpark. I don't want TOO much bass. The Ultra Jazz's have TONS of bass. The only description I would use is 'hollow'. But they are amazing for slapping.

The way I see it is I just want the pickups to reproduce the sound of my bass in an uncoloured way because I can change the tone with the J east and my sansamp later.

One other thing, I would like more output. Which of the above pickups are the hottest in that area?

Are the Lindy Fralins transparent and have I overlooked any that would fit my needs such as the Seymour Duncans or EMG's?
Click to expand...

If you've narrowed it down to DiMarzio J, Bart 9J and Nordstrand humcancelling...

People mean different things by transparent, some mean an overall open frequency range with no emphasis on any particular frequency range. Some mean an overall open range *with* some frequency range emphasis being acceptable.

In general, it's tough go get a truly transparent pickup - IMO more so with humcancellers.

Just so you know where I'm coming from: I've tried out these humcancelling J pickups all in the same bass (A Geddy Lee Jazz):
Dimarzio J, Dimarzio Ultra J, Nord 4JSE, SD Stacks, SD Hot Stacks, Bart 9J, Bart CB, Villex, EMG J, Sadowsky J

I wouldn't call any of the three you mention transparent.
All three have a mid range emphasis, the Barts much less so but it's still there. The DM's have a thick low mid heavy sound. The Nords have a less mid heavy hump and IMO have the more open frequency range of the three. The Barts have a slightly muted high end.

Of the ones I tested, the two that were *closest* to either definition of transparent were the Sadowsky J and EMG J's. Now the EMG's weren't exactly transparent, since they're active and have some EQ boost. But they have a full frequency response range, and can even sound too bright in a bright bass. As I said before, I felt the Sadowskys were the best overall humbuckers, think like the UJ's but with a slight bit less low end, not mid scooped and a sweeter sounding high end.

edit: As a common sense reminder, there are *many* variables in the signal chain that makes up the sound. What sounds good in one bass may not sound good in another. What sounds good to one person in one bass may not sound good to someone else playing the same bass. Blanket recommendations are tough.
 
#18
FWIW:

yeh, concur with David on the terminology. Has anybody by chance ran across a glossary of bass lingo?

I've been reading some of this, noticing contradictions, and so either I'm ignorant or some words are slinging without understanding.

Transparent to me is just that. A scooped pup would have transparent mids cause obviously mids are being generated but the pups will not cut them, they are very thin, or you can adjust them in or out. Typically if you play solo they're there but not to music - so they sound "pretty" solo but not worth much when the band kicks in. Some pups it's designed in but preferably you can adjust it as desired, like with a vintage Fender tone where you can thin the bass so it's effective and fullfills it's function but has more air than anything. Some pups not matter what you do the frequency range is there in your face and that's not transparent - and from what I've read about the Model J's, that is likely how the mids are.
 
#19
I've always figured transparent to mean that the Pup brings through the natural tone of the instrument itself, the sound of the neck wood and body wood in combination with the strings and the bridge.

I'm not sure if I truely transparent pickup really exists, I'm sure theres many even and balanced sounding ones out there, but they all add their own little mark.
Its really a matter of finding the one that you like best.


Man, I really wanna try some nords, I should've been more patient and ordered them instead of getting DM's.
:hmm:
Next bass I build.... yep.
 
#20
big evil robot said:
I've always figured transparent to mean that the Pup brings through the natural tone of the instrument itself, the sound of the neck wood and body wood in combination with the strings and the bridge.

I'm not sure if I truely transparent pickup really exists, I'm sure theres many even and balanced sounding ones out there, but they all add their own little mark...
QUOTE]

Yep, can see that interpretation. But like you, I've never heard such an animal and can't relate to it beyond conceptually. But I've heard the reference and even people who state they've experienced it. Never been into acoustic 6 string pickups but it seems some of those do accomplish the task for a 6 string acoustic guitar (although I wouldn't be suprised if guys that play through them would state they can tell they color the instrument the way we know Barts, EMGs, etc.).

But a statement like "the bass sounds the same amplified as it does unplugged" is beyond me. I've never heard such a bass anyway. I would have no faith in my ability to predict what a bass would sound like amplified from hearing it acoustically. In my experience the acoustic tone of a bass definetly affects the amplified tone but proportionally it's relatively minor compared to other factors like pups, wiring, amps, etc.

We could use this site to assemble a bass glossary. Nobody knows if one exists elsewhere?
Click to expand...
 

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