It's a very relevant point you've made.
I just tend to take the Cycle of Fourths as automatically being lumped in with the Circle of Fifths, as a kind of package deal
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Cb Major
- Thread starter rarbass
- Start date
It's a very relevant point you've made.
I just tend to take the Cycle of Fourths as automatically being lumped in with the Circle of Fifths, as a kind of package deal
Because the only time you'd write in a key with 8 flats is when you're modulating to it, as explained by Havic5. As far as the CoF is concerned, writing in E instead of Fb is the norm 99.999% of the time.
sure, B# and E# are real notes..they're called C and F.
You need to understand how all the standard keys in the Circle/Cycle of Fifths/Fourths work. Then you'd see Mushroo is correct.
Right, I understand, I guess my point was this: it's a circle, not a straight line. You don't move from C to Cb and that's that; it eventually comes back around again, even if those keys are not used in practice.
Right, I understand, I guess my point was this: it's a circle, not a straight line. You don't move from C to Cb and that's that; it eventually comes back around again, even if those keys are not used in practice.
Ahhh, now I understand where you're going with this
You are right, all most all of the time you would write in E instead of Fb. But, the cycle of fourth's is what it is and does contain Cb, and Fb.
Cb and Fb absolutely are "real" notes, just like B# and E# are real notes.
Theoretically, you could build a major scale on any of these notes.
They are not commonly used, but they do "exist."
In terms of doing well on your assignment, if I were grading you, I would be most impressed if you showed a proper understanding of accidentals in the context of a scale. For example if you correctly identified G# melodic minor as having an E# and F## (double sharp). That would impress me more than knowing how to play a Cb major scale.
(edit) ps C# Major is not a "theoretical" key; check out Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier for example.
Cb and Fb are absolutely real notes and they are used in things like Ab minor chords, Neopolitan 6th chords in Eb major, etc. but just because its theoretically possible it does not mean you will ever come across it. Just like a Diminished Prime interval: C - Cb. You can make all sorts of arguments for it but the rules predefining it make it incorrect.
So let me ask the OP, if it doesn't matter what scale you play because the patterns are all the same on the electric bass, what do you do if they ask you to name the notes?
sure, B# and E# are real notes..they're called C and F.
A7#9 (A-C#-E-G-B#; the "Hendrix chord") has a B#.
A augmented has an E# (A-C#-E#)
You could find either of these chords in a blues, rock, or jazz tune in the key of D (2 sharps); they are neither exotic nor rare.
no doubt,but for the lack of other meaningful pastimes we are way past that and heavily into minutia......if you recall i had asked the op to spell the relative minor for C# major to which the op mistakenly referred to as A#major......possibly the root of some confusion....
No, this was cleared up on the first page, with the OP stating his was a typo after this being corrected.
I'm not entirely sure what tangent you're going towards with some of your posts. For me it's like you begin with one train of thought, have a gap and then continue with a totally new thought, so maybe that's where we're getting our wires crossed - if indeed we are at all
the teacher isnt looking to be amazed by your theory, he just wants you to know your scales, dont play Cb.
take it from another music student... dont try to impress the teachers, thats a mistake too many students make and it makes them look like fools.
take it from another music student... dont try to impress the teachers, thats a mistake too many students make and it makes them look like fools.
+1
Unless it's a requirement for you to pass or it's part of the test, stick to what you know and do it well. You want to demonstrate solid knowledge and ability. Going beyond that for a test into stuff you're not sure about in either aspect makes you appear shaky, and you could be marked down as a result.
could be my writing style...feel free to ask for clarification any time .......he may have cleared up the typo but the thread veered off without him answering and instead chose a different avenue for his test......No, this was cleared up on the first page, with the OP stating his was a typo after this being corrected.
I'm not entirely sure what tangent you're going towards with some of your posts. For me it's like you begin with one train of thought, have a gap and then continue with a totally new thought, so maybe that's where we're getting our wires crossed - if indeed we are at all
it may appear to be a tangent but in the end other far more knowledgeable folks than myself have confirmed that within certain contexts scales written one way are correct even though their enharmonic equivalents appear to make for easier playing/writing because they have fewer flats or sharps......i think we both arrived there,although with a few bumps along the way
:scowl:
I would suggest to the OP if you pick Cb as your scale and you don't know the difference between the key of B and the key of Cb, you will show your self as a fool for getting out your depth. Pick a scale you know and save multi sharp and flat scales till you know and understand how they work and why.
So let me tell you that the key of Cb has 7 flats, and the key of B has five sharps
That is the correct answer to the difference between them.
Yes they are "real notes" in the keys they occupy, the fact they have different names is because they are en-harmonic, the share the same pitch but have different names. This is because sharps and flats cannot occupy the same key signiture, only imported as an accidentals. Also an imported natural can raise or lower a note by canceling out a sharp or flat in the key when placed in front of it, so in the key of Cb, a natural placed in front of a note on the ledger line C will raise it to C. the opposite will happen when naturals are used with sharps key sigs. they will flatten them.
This is just a small part of the possibility of how scale theory can be applied and if you were in front of me i would have no hesitation on failing you for not understanding the basic difference between Cb and B as key sigs.
I think more work is required on the basics my friend, start at the beginning and you'll find your answers, the C scale, tetrachords, and the Cycle of 5ths is your first rung on the ladder, have fun.
So let me tell you that the key of Cb has 7 flats, and the key of B has five sharps
That is the correct answer to the difference between them.
Yes they are "real notes" in the keys they occupy, the fact they have different names is because they are en-harmonic, the share the same pitch but have different names. This is because sharps and flats cannot occupy the same key signiture, only imported as an accidentals. Also an imported natural can raise or lower a note by canceling out a sharp or flat in the key when placed in front of it, so in the key of Cb, a natural placed in front of a note on the ledger line C will raise it to C. the opposite will happen when naturals are used with sharps key sigs. they will flatten them.
This is just a small part of the possibility of how scale theory can be applied and if you were in front of me i would have no hesitation on failing you for not understanding the basic difference between Cb and B as key sigs.
I think more work is required on the basics my friend, start at the beginning and you'll find your answers, the C scale, tetrachords, and the Cycle of 5ths is your first rung on the ladder, have fun.
the op decided to go with a different group of scales for his test for some or all of the reasons here.......it has been an interesting thread and i think some of us,myself for certain learned a thing or two in the process
Alright so this is getting a TAD out of hand so I'll explain myself better...
I am aware that Cb Major and B Major are the same! One is simply written with a key signature of flats, the other with sharps. And I spoke to my teacher anyway, even though I already knew it would obviously make more sense to play it as B Major. The point is, we were told to learn the major scales of all 7 sharps and all 7 flats. So I looked at a list of the keys and noticed Cb at the end, which raised the original question.
Some of you are getting very irritated about my apparent lack of knowledge. Every single time I said "A# Major", I DEFINITELY meant to say A# Minor, which is the relative minor to C# Major. My mistake!!!
The Circle of 5ths and reasonings for why things should be written a certain way (sharps vs. flats, etc.) is currently a weak spot in my musical knowledge that I have not been able to actually sit down and think about due to being busy lately. I have also been meaning to learn a lot about chord theory and how this can help me write bass lines, but alas I have had no time to sit down and fully focus on it...
So I thank you for all of the advice posted so far, but yes I am aware that Cb is the enharmonic equivalent to B, just as C# is to Db, F# is to Gb, etc.
I am aware that Cb Major and B Major are the same! One is simply written with a key signature of flats, the other with sharps. And I spoke to my teacher anyway, even though I already knew it would obviously make more sense to play it as B Major. The point is, we were told to learn the major scales of all 7 sharps and all 7 flats. So I looked at a list of the keys and noticed Cb at the end, which raised the original question.
Some of you are getting very irritated about my apparent lack of knowledge. Every single time I said "A# Major", I DEFINITELY meant to say A# Minor, which is the relative minor to C# Major. My mistake!!!
The Circle of 5ths and reasonings for why things should be written a certain way (sharps vs. flats, etc.) is currently a weak spot in my musical knowledge that I have not been able to actually sit down and think about due to being busy lately. I have also been meaning to learn a lot about chord theory and how this can help me write bass lines, but alas I have had no time to sit down and fully focus on it...
So I thank you for all of the advice posted so far, but yes I am aware that Cb is the enharmonic equivalent to B, just as C# is to Db, F# is to Gb, etc.
It's a matter of context. If the tune is clearly in a flat key, if the Cb chord is surrounded by other 'flat chords', or if the Cb chord is part of a descending line or progression (ascending, you want to use sharps), you'll want to use Cb rather than B natural (or A double sharp).
