• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass cheap way to experiment with fretted, bowed instruments

I've done a bit of experimentation in the past by tying nylon frets on my double bass and on a cheap cello, but I'd love to try out something like the guitarviol, a bass or tenor gamba, a violone or an arpeggione and I'm looking for a cheap way to get into this.
From my experimentation nylon or gut frets really only work well with nylon or gut strings, and gut or synthetic gut strings that are made for bowed instruments tend to be quite expensive honestly. So I'd personally prefer "normal" metal frets over tying my own since that would allow me to broaden the string choice to something like a set of flatwound guitar or bass strings to mess with different tunings without breaking the bank.
Obviously the neck needs to be wide enough for 6 strings and it needs to be curved like an upright bass or cello. Fretting a cello neck doesn't really work since there is not enough space on there for 6 strings, and any fretted instrument that comes to mind doesn't have the correct curvature to it to make it bowable (at least I can't think of any). The only thing that came to my mind would be to keep my eyes open for a dirt cheap 1/8 or 1/16 upright bass and modify it, since the fingerboard should at least be wider than on a cello.
Lastly, I am aware of relatively cheap chinese gambas and arpeggiones made by Song Chung, but at the price they currently sit at (500€-600€ including shipping, plus import taxes and customs and whatnot) I'm not really too keen on gambling on these mystery instruments.

I hope I didn't ramble on too much, I have some luthiery skills which I can use to modify existing, cheap instruments to fit this bill (which is also why I put this into the luthier's corner, I hope that's okay), I could gamble on a chinese instrument or I could hope to find a used fretted tenor or bass fiddle or gamba to finally be able to experiment with that sort of instrument. I'm happy for any pointers people can give me or general input on what kind of instrument to use and how to modify it to fit the bill, or if I should just accept compromises like 4 strings on a modified cello or gut frets and strings. Overall it should be done with as little money as possible, less than 500€ ideally, since I doubt that this'll be anything that I can resell with any value after I'm done repurposing it and experimenting with it.
 
I'm not quite clear what you want to do, but i can say that 6 bowable strings on a small bass means a wide fingerboard with a decent arch on it. Unfortunately you're not likely to get that on a cheap small bass. It'll be thin and flat.

I knew I was rambling, should have made that more clear.
The concepts I'd like to experiment with are 6 strings in all kinds of tunings basically, one of them standard guitar tuning since it would be fairly easy to adapt learned repertoire on that new instrument, and the other one is playing a fretted instrument with a bow. That's why I mentioned the instruments in the first sentence:
Guitarviol
hqdefault.jpg


arpeggione
gabriel_arpeggione.jpg

gamba
GambeUilderks.png


Something along those lines. Buying a proper, professionally made instrument in those categories would be well outside of what I'm willing to spend comfortably, so I'd like to try my hand at a DIY method of experimenting with the concepts mentioned that is much more affordable, like modifying a cheap cello. I hope someone could give me ideas or tell me something I haven't considered yet in that regard. In return I'm not too concerned with immaculate sound or good looks and I'd be putting in the hours myself to make it happen.
 
Last edited:
If you can find an instrument with a wide enough neck and fingerboard for such a thing, I'd suggest considering Superior Bassworks Deluxe Dirty Guts for both the frets and the strings. These are a spiral-cut kevlar core "gator line" wacker-type of string that come pretty close to the tone, clarity, texture and look of guts at an extremely affordable price (usually about $50US/set) for a package of 6 strings (intended to be a "bump-pack" for double bass). And these strings bow very nicely, in many cases better than gut. If your instrument is guitar-sized or cello-sized you should have enough of the lighter gauge strings left to use for frets.

Note though, the lower strings are extremely thick, so you'd need tuners with holes in the shaft that are large enough to accommodate .170" strings. This could probably work out for a cello tuning peg, but if you are trying this with a standard guitar tuners you'll probably have trouble with the tuner shaft holes.

It strikes me that just like with double bass, you might be able to find a project cello with a broken neck that needs to be replaced. Replacing the neck with a wider neck might be a possibility depending on your ability as a builder... The strings mentioned above are low tension, so six of them would probably work on a cello top without causing damage. Of course you'd also need to design and build a proper tailpiece to accommodate 6 strings.

Interesting project, especially during this time if you're staying at home a lot. I don't have much experience with Renaissance or otherwise early stringed instruments, but I have heard them and really like their tone.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: robobass
If you can find an instrument with a wide enough neck and fingerboard for such a thing, I'd suggest considering Superior Bassworks Deluxe Dirty Guts for both the frets and the strings. These are a spiral-cut kevlar core "gator line" wacker-type of string that come pretty close to the tone, clarity, texture and look of guts at an extremely affordable price (usually about $50US/set) for a package of 6 strings (intended to be a "bump-pack" for double bass). And these strings bow very nicely, in many cases better than gut. If your instrument is guitar-sized or cello-sized you should have enough of the lighter gauge strings left to use for frets.

Note though, the lower strings are extremely thick, so you'd need tuners with holes in the shaft that are large enough to accommodate .170" strings. This could probably work out for a cello tuning peg, but if you are trying this with a standard guitar tuners you'll probably have trouble with the tuner shaft holes.

It strikes me that just like with double bass, you might be able to find a project cello with a broken neck that needs to be replaced. Replacing the neck with a wider neck might be a possibility depending on your ability as a builder... The strings mentioned above are low tension, so six of them would probably work on a cello top without causing damage. Of course you'd also need to design and build a proper tailpiece to accommodate 6 strings.

Interesting project, especially during this time if you're staying at home a lot. I don't have much experience with Renaissance or otherwise early stringed instruments, but I have heard them and really like their tone.

Thanks for the string recommendation. Yeah, I have a lot of time at home right now so it would be a neat project. Now that you mention it, they sell unfinished arpeggione necks for around 100€ shipped (600€ shipped for the whole instrument), a cheap cello, possibly with a broken neck, can be had from anywhere between 50€ and 150€ the last time I've seen them, and a normal cello tailpiece or again a blank would be easily converted to fit 6 strings. That only leaves the bridge and bridge position on the cello which would probably not fit the new neck. Sounds managable, at least to get it playable.

these are the arpeggione necks I've seen from Song Chung
s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg
 
Nice, but for an early-instrument tone like we're discussing, and for keeping cost down, I'd still vote for an unfretted neck and use nylon frets with nylon strings. If fret tying is a problem due to thickness or stiffness, various types of thick fishing line are very workable for this type of thing, and long lasting.
 
Nice, but for an early-instrument tone like we're discussing, and for keeping cost down, I'd still vote for an unfretted neck and use nylon frets with nylon strings. If fret tying is a problem due to thickness or stiffness, various types of thick fishing line are very workable for this type of thing, and long lasting.
Certainly, for that kind of tone, but that's not necessarily what I'm after. As I said the concept itself is very appealing and interesting to me, and I'd say that modern inventions like geared tuning machines and metal frets are more versatile and practical in many respects.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Don Hergert