Choosing band members

[tbasstreble11]

I'll try to be brief and list the details -

Originals band
I've written and produced the set
I'm playing rhythm guitar and singing
Pop rock genre (post punk)
Simple guitars, melodic (Mcartney, Jamerson) style bass
Drums and bass need to do the heavy lifting to sell the songs
Have been through 3 lead guitarists that couldn't cope with the funk feel of a lot of the parts
Had a drummer that complained about the feel of the bass player (a guitarist I was teaching the bass parts) and eventually lost interest
Disbanded
Now, new potential lineup…

I want musicians who can play the parts easily so that I can let go of them and they can develop them on their own.

A guitarist was introduced to me who I vibe with and communicate musically and personally very well. He can play the songs in his sleep. He's in, however - he's beyond pushy to include his girlfriend on bass. She's played before in bands playing very simple stuff and after jamming with them it was clear she doesn't have the chops to play this stuff. Not to say she couldn't learn it, god knows she's keen and practicing (the more straight lines, not touching the funkier stuff) but how long that will take is a complete unknown. The bassist needs to be the strongest player in this band for my mind (actually in all bands!).

Lead guitarist has also tagged in his mrs brother - highly trained jazz drummer - he's in based on that if he likes the songs. I've heard his drumming on simple blue and he has great feel.

I know a bassist I want to use who I know is capable and the best bass player available- he's a bit flakey but I'm not worried about that yet. Lead guitarist tells me due to family commitments the drummer will only play (be allowed to play) if his sister (bass) is involved. I'm willing to cop that and find another drummer if I get the bassist I want. At the moment all serious rehearsal has been on hold for months for her to learn her parts, rather than us all getting together to jam and see how we vibe and flesh things out. Lead assures me he's in regardless, but keeps pushing for his mrs to be in. It's all out in the open, which makes me think I need to exclude her soon because I don't want to lead her on. Personally I think lead guy is blind to/ignoring her playing deficiencies - a precedent I don't want repeating through the course of this band. I want everyone to be able to communicate musically for themselves to work through things and don't want one person speaking or compensating for another. My first instinct when he mentioned her was to veto it instantly because they're a couple - I've left bands in the past because of the dynamic that sets up, but it's awkward to have to explain that to him.

Reasons to persist with her involved would be - I have a full, keen, lineup if I do - she is keen, and I can teach - her playing deficiencies may actually be an asset to me producing the band as I see it because she'll play what I've written (I'm first and foremost a bass player and these songs showcase the bass parts)

Cons would be - we find she isn't capable of getting up to speed and thus waste time and cause resentment down the line - all the couple issues that could arise - power imbalance in the band instead of everyone speaking and playing for themselves - may have to find another drummer and we all know they don't grow on trees :S

Any thoughts?

 

[buldog5151bass]

I wouldn't want to try run front a band where one player will only play if you allow a family member to be in. That's a powder keg waiting to go off. Either someone wants to be in a band or not.

 

[lokikallas]

Nah man. Huge red flag.

 

[tbasstreble11]

I wouldn't want to try run front a band where one player will only play if you allow a family member to be in. That's a powder keg waiting to go off. Either someone wants to be in a band or not.

Thank you for that - I actually said to the guitarist that was a red flag when he told me that. He's set up a jam with all of us tomorrow and I will bring that up after we play, ask the drummer if that's the case or not.

 

[LBS-bass]

Just tell him frankly that if she's in she's going to be the weak link and that you will put a ton of pressure on her to come up to speed so that she can serve the music well, and the expectations will be high. Let him decide if he really wants to put that pressure on her. Odds are good that if you tell him that, he might think twice.

If he doesn't, then go at her full force with all of your expectations, and do everything you can to bring her up to speed. Odds are good she'll balk and walk. But she might rise to the challenge and surprise everyone.

Or, just tell them that she's not going to be a good fit and let the guitarist deal with his angst over it. You might end up needing a new guitarist.

Here's the real problem. You have nothing to offer the players you really want. Compromises will be made. You're going to have to figure out what you're willing to compromise on.

 

[knumbskull]

can you play the bass parts and sing?

 

[PauFerro]

If I can add my two cents (and worth every penny).

Having a really successful band requires a mix of the right types of musicians. You need to have at least one entrepreneur musician in the band -- someone who will do the sales and marketing. Otherwise, you never get out of the basement. Also, be cautious of other entrepreneur musicians in the band -- if things don't go well, they will take all your musicians and form their own band. But someone who has a moderate entrepreneur quotient will supplement your sales efforts and bring gigs to the band to keep it alive.

Two, I would avoid what I call the "artist" types of musicians. These are musicians who subscribe to the philosophy that "my only client is the music". These guys will drive you nuts with perfectionism, fancy intros and outros that are hard to remember and need excess rehearsal time, and will be picky about repertoire. They do elevate the band to greater levels of quality and musicianship, but if their "Artist Quotient" is too high, they are a major cause of conflict, temperamentalism, and headaches to band leaders. In my experience, they tend to fly off the handle easier than other kinds of musicians.

Then there is wat I call "the employee musician". These guys show up, rehearse, do a good job, and get paid. They have no interest in the sales and marketing, and have more employee in them than artist.

Musicians don't fall entirely into any one category -- people are all different and defy strict classification, but most musicians fall somehwere on a continuum from low to high on each dimension. Be mindful of this as you create your band.

Where I landed was with myself as mostly an Entrepreneur with about 20% artist. I had a drummer who was about 40% entrepreneur, 30% artist and 30% employee. The rest were all 50-75% employee and 25-50% artist.

I had one guitarist who was 80% artist and 20% entrepreneur. I gook him on to be a second business motor, but he was lazy about it and only brought in a couple gigs a year.

I had to let him go and then he took my sax player and formed his own band. But his entrepreneurism was weak, and the sax player came back to my group because we were giving about 8 times more than the entrepreneur/artist guitar player.

 

[lokikallas]

If your songs are really good, the right musicians shouldn't be hard to find. Hell, you can start gigging tomorrow with tracks these days.

 

[singlemalt]

Let the drummer be the bad guy. A good drummer won't tolerate a weak bassist, no matter how cute she is.

But damn, you found three people who want to play your originals? You should buy lotto tickets.

 

[tbasstreble11]

can you play the bass parts and sing?

No, it's been suggested to me a few times but they're not linear enough. Some are, but the better songs the lines are really syncopated - also I'm not a strong singer and even playing guitar chords takes my focus away from the vocal a bit. I might have a little practice with it and see how I go but I've tried before with these sort of parts and failed miserably

 

[tbasstreble11]

Let the drummer be the bad guy. A good drummer won't tolerate a weak bassist, no matter how cute she is.

But damn, you found three people who want to play your originals? You should buy lotto tickets.

Not to be cocky - I've written thousands of songs no one wanted to know about, let alone play - but everyone I've asked and shown these songs has been keen. They're just upbeat fun songs - but they need people who can play them, or they won't be what they wanted to play in the first place. Unfortunately it's not her cuteness with the drummer - he's her brother

 

[tbasstreble11]

If your songs are really good, the right musicians shouldn't be hard to find. Hell, you can start gigging tomorrow with tracks these days.

My point exactly! The drummer and lead and I are all good enough to get the set ready in a couple of weeks - instead we're waiting for someone to learn Techniques necessary to even play it

 

[lokikallas]

Wait, a brother, a boyfriend and girlfriend. How many red flags do you need? You will be outvoted unanimously every time.

 

[tbasstreble11]

If I can add my two cents (and worth every penny).

Having a really successful band requires a mix of the right types of musicians. You need to have at least one entrepreneur musician in the band -- someone who will do the sales and marketing. Otherwise, you never get out of the basement. Also, be cautious of other entrepreneur musicians in the band -- if things don't go well, they will take all your musicians and form their own band. But someone who has a moderate entrepreneur quotient will supplement your sales efforts and bring gigs to the band to keep it alive.

Two, I would avoid what I call the "artist" types of musicians. These are musicians who subscribe to the philosophy that "my only client is the music". These guys will drive you nuts with perfectionism, fancy intros and outros that are hard to remember and need excess rehearsal time, and will be picky about repertoire. They do elevate the band to greater levels of quality and musicianship, but if their "Artist Quotient" is too high, they are a major cause of conflict, temperamentalism, and headaches to band leaders. In my experience, they tend to fly off the handle easier than other kinds of musicians.

Then there is wat I call "the employee musician". These guys show up, rehearse, do a good job, and get paid. They have no interest in the sales and marketing, and have more employee in them than artist.

Musicians don't fall entirely into any one category -- people are all different and defy strict classification, but most musicians fall somehwere on a continuum from low to high on each dimension. Be mindful of this as you create your band.

Where I landed was with myself as mostly an Entrepreneur with about 20% artist. I had a drummer who was about 40% entrepreneur, 30% artist and 30% employee. The rest were all 50-75% employee and 25-50% artist.

I had one guitarist who was 80% artist and 20% entrepreneur. I gook him on to be a second business motor, but he was lazy about it and only brought in a couple gigs a year.

I had to let him go and then he took my sax player and formed his own band. But his entrepreneurism was weak, and the sax player came back to my group because we were giving about 8 times more than the entrepreneur/artist guitar player.

this is great, thank you! The lead guitarist is a key entrepreneur guy who has the playing chops - I've told him that and I don't want to lose him because I'm the artist one - I'm aware of it so I want people who play well enough that I don't become perfectionist about it. I'd rather palm the parts of to them and their interpretation, but that's not possible if I have to teach them the instrument

 

[tbasstreble11]

Wait, a brother, a boyfriend and girlfriend. How many red flags do you need? You will be outvoted unanimously every time.

Good point - I hadn't even factored the brother into that context

 

[KenD]

IMO that situation is a problem waiting to flare up, probably at the most inopportune moment.
I would pass and keep looking.

 

[Johnny Fingers]

Sounds like a soap opera plot brewing.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'll try to be brief and list the details -

Originals band
I've written and produced the set
I'm playing rhythm guitar and singing
Pop rock genre (post punk)
Simple guitars, melodic (Mcartney, Jamerson) style bass
Drums and bass need to do the heavy lifting to sell the songs
Have been through 3 lead guitarists that couldn't cope with the funk feel of a lot of the parts
Had a drummer that complained about the feel of the bass player (a guitarist I was teaching the bass parts) and eventually lost interest
Disbanded
Now, new potential lineup…

I want musicians who can play the parts easily so that I can let go of them and they can develop them on their own.

A guitarist was introduced to me who I vibe with and communicate musically and personally very well. He can play the songs in his sleep. He's in, however - he's beyond pushy to include his girlfriend on bass. She's played before in bands playing very simple stuff and after jamming with them it was clear she doesn't have the chops to play this stuff. Not to say she couldn't learn it, god knows she's keen and practicing (the more straight lines, not touching the funkier stuff) but how long that will take is a complete unknown. The bassist needs to be the strongest player in this band for my mind (actually in all bands!).

Lead guitarist has also tagged in his mrs brother - highly trained jazz drummer - he's in based on that if he likes the songs. I've heard his drumming on simple blue and he has great feel.

I know a bassist I want to use who I know is capable and the best bass player available- he's a bit flakey but I'm not worried about that yet. Lead guitarist tells me due to family commitments the drummer will only play (be allowed to play) if his sister (bass) is involved. I'm willing to cop that and find another drummer if I get the bassist I want. At the moment all serious rehearsal has been on hold for months for her to learn her parts, rather than us all getting together to jam and see how we vibe and flesh things out. Lead assures me he's in regardless, but keeps pushing for his mrs to be in. It's all out in the open, which makes me think I need to exclude her soon because I don't want to lead her on. Personally I think lead guy is blind to/ignoring her playing deficiencies - a precedent I don't want repeating through the course of this band. I want everyone to be able to communicate musically for themselves to work through things and don't want one person speaking or compensating for another. My first instinct when he mentioned her was to veto it instantly because they're a couple - I've left bands in the past because of the dynamic that sets up, but it's awkward to have to explain that to him.

Reasons to persist with her involved would be - I have a full, keen, lineup if I do - she is keen, and I can teach - her playing deficiencies may actually be an asset to me producing the band as I see it because she'll play what I've written (I'm first and foremost a bass player and these songs showcase the bass parts)

Cons would be - we find she isn't capable of getting up to speed and thus waste time and cause resentment down the line - all the couple issues that could arise - power imbalance in the band instead of everyone speaking and playing for themselves - may have to find another drummer and we all know they don't grow on trees :S

Any thoughts?

First off:

Anyone can learn anything. With practice and dedication.

Second:

Yeah, big no on couples members. You're going to lose both when one has an argument.

Third:

You wrote everything right? Have you recorded it all? Because you should. Record the songs, shoot them to the members, and have them learn them on their own. It's the fastest and easiest way to learn songs. Having music, and notes to go off of.

Fourth:

Ease up. Every member is going to ultimately play the songs the way they want to anyway. Just let it happen. The chords are the same, lyrics will be the same. Melodies will be mostly the same. But everyone is going to add themselves into it. It's inevitable. Just let it happen. It's better that way anyway. When one person writes all the music, all the music sounds the same. Like that one person.

 

[Dust2Dust]

What a Hot Mess

 

[LBS-bass]

Worked out great for No Doubt. You know, Gwen Stefani's backing band.

It can work out if everyone's really on the same page. These fears get overblown; family members have been playing music together forever. And oddly enough, they don't always agree and form a unified voting bloc! Sometimes they have their own independent thoughts, even!