Cliff Burton's Muff

[tplyons]

That is incorrect. The Russian Green SBM were not made until after Cliff died. As a result, it is impossible for him to have use it.

This is true. I should update the FAQ.

Ted and I did a bunch of deliberating on this topic and concluded that the original green SBM didn't come out until about 4-5 years after his death.

As far as I'm aware, only the NYC issues were available then. I've gotten darn close with a NYC Reissue.

 

[ETEcarmine]

So how does the Sovtek sound compared to the NYC?

 

[tplyons]

In general, a modern black Sovtek is grittier than the NYC Reissue, which tends to be smoother, more pleasing to my ears, more of a guitar like distortion.

Going back, there's a variety of USA Muffs which vary from model to model, unit to unit, because tolerances weren't very exacting. Same with the older Sovteks.

 

[Tedintheshed]

OH MY!^^^

So Ted, NYC muff will do the job? I thought the russian ones were harsher?

The GREEN SBM's are definately harsher on a pedal by pedal comparison. Remember, some of the greenies sound like crap due to lack of quality control in Russia during the time.

As far as the pedals that are made curently, I think the NYC will get you there. Not a fan of the newer black SBMs.

 

[Tedintheshed]

No- that is an early green version 3 aluminium case SBM.

Is this the one he used?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sovtek-E-H-Russian-Big-Muff-Pi-Fuzz-Pedal_W0QQitemZ160054315503QQihZ006QQcategoryZ41418QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Tedintheshed]

This is true. I should update the FAQ.

Bad moderator! BAD,BAD MODERATOR!!

 

[Tedintheshed]

So how does the Sovtek sound compared to the NYC?

Well, which Sovtek verses which NYC?

There are six versions of the Sovtek, and three at least (with various model numbers)of the NYC.

 

[Tedintheshed]

As far as I'm aware, only the NYC issues were available then. I've gotten darn close with a NYC Reissue.

This is doable.

I can't emphasize too much, that the key to the "Cliff Burton" sound is the wah pedal. You can get very close with many different fuzzes as long as you have the right wah.

A Tel-Ray made Morley wah is your best bet.

 

[ETEcarmine]

Well, which Sovtek verses which NYC?

There are six versions of the Sovtek, and three at least (with various model nukbers)of the NYC.

The green Sovtek that I posted off ebay. How does that one compare to the NYC?

 

[jsbass]

The vintage Morley Power Wah Boost's come up on ebay rather frequently. I've lost on them twice. Still looking. And yes, the Big Muff Pi RI will do fine.

 

[JanusZarate]

The Power Wah isn't everything. With a Little Big Muff, a SansAmp BDDI, and a modern reissue Power Wah, I was able to get a decent Burton-esque tone.

A warm amp (perhaps tubes work best for this), with a fuzz set to harsher settings, is the ideal compliment to a Morley Power Wah or other rock wah.

I've recently found through experimentation that even with the Tone knob on my Little Big Muff as high as 12 o'clock, I don't lose any low end and I get some sharper Russian-Muff-like tones (but at that point, you are on the verge of entering some low-end-loss territory). The key is compensating with the Volume knob and not setting the Sustain knob above 9 or 10 o'clock (depending on whether you've got an active or passive bass), and the result sounds awesome while still being bassy, IMO.

 

[Tedintheshed]

The green Sovtek that I posted off ebay. How does that one compare to the NYC?

Well, your milage varies. Due to the frequent use of what was conveniently available at the time (many times Russian military grade parts, as you can see the USSR equivilent of EIA codes on various parts) and low QA standards the range of these can be total crap to tonal nirvanna. Overall, the early green SBM's are more agressive sounding than their NYC brethern, while maintaining low end girth.

I always recomend a "try beffore you buy" strategy before buying these, or prepare to buy/sell these until your find a good one. I was lucky- a local collector liqudated his collection to Guitar Center in trade, and I was able to try mine before buying it.

 

[Tedintheshed]

The Power Wah isn't everything.

Perhaps not- but the easiest and most accurate way of getting Burton's sound is a Tel-Ray PWB + distortion (preferably a muff of ones liking), all things being equal.

 

[ETEcarmine]

The sucks that the green Sovtek Big Muffs are a crapshoot. I don't know of any in my area, but they come up on ebay a lot.

What does a Morley PWB in good condition go for these days? I found one and I'd like to make an offer without insulting the guy. Same question for the green SBM.

 

[Craggsy]

Not wanting to open a can of worms here, but i read somewhere on harmony central that he used a Power Wah Fuzz not the Power Wah Boost?

Managed to score a PWB ff ebay, they dont go for alot of money, mine was about £50.

 

[ETEcarmine]

I started another thread asking about the Power Wah Fuzz. Everyone here says he used the Boost. What do you think of your Wah Fuzz?

 

[Craggsy]

I got the power wah boost, although i can't tell you what its like because I hasn't be delivered yet

But i shall post some pictures when its here!

 

[Tedintheshed]

Not wanting to open a can of worms here, but i read somewhere on harmony central that he used a Power Wah Fuzz not the Power Wah Boost?

No worries.

That is because a Metallica fansite wrongly has it as a PWF. Also, Dave Ellefson references his pedal as a "Morley Fuzz/Wah pedal" in a Bass Player issue, but in an interview Jason Newsted said that Metallica still owned Cliff's pedals and had him incorporate those in the older Metallica tunes they played. He named one as a PWB.