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Double Bass combining pickups

Mark Perna

Mark Perna

Mar 3, 2007
1,439
50
Pittsburgh, PA
#1
I've just tried something that I thought would never work. I combined pickups and it worked. I never tried it before because I figured I'd have unavoidable phasing problems.

I have a number of basses and they have different pickups on them. My main steel strings have BP-100s and Realists on them. My gut has a Realist and an Underwood and the my backup Kolstein has a Realist and a Bassmax.

I like the BP-100s but they tend to lack the heavy depth of the Realist. The Realist is nice but I miss the string sound and the mids I can get from the BP-100.

The other day, I plugged the BP100 into the main input of my Series II Focus and set it up so it sounded as good as possible and then I turned the volume down on it. Then I plugged the Realist into a Fishman Platinum EQ preamp and the XLR out of the Fishman into the XLR in of the Focus and twiddled until it also sounded as good as possible. Then I mixed the BP-100 back into the signal path and after flipping the phase switch on the Fishman, it sounded great. The depth of the Realist with the string sound and mids of the BP-100. I ended up running the EQ pretty close to flat on both pickups so I didn't have any extreme EQ weirdness in the sound.

It was a revelation. The skies parted and the angels began to sing. It was the best of both worlds and no phasing problems.

I did the same thing with my gut string bass with the Underwood and the Realist and I got the same thing. No more boomy or thin choices.

Tried it on a gig last week with the Kolstein and it worked great in the real world. I'm going to try it with the gut tonight.

mark
 
#3
I can really vouch for this approach also.

I am running a realist and an underwood on my bass, along with a Shure Beta 57 attached with an H-clamp.

I run the Underwood directly into the first channel on the focus, the realist into a Fishman Platinum Pro Eq (it sounds boxy and wierd when I run it directly into the focus) and then into the effects return on channel 1, then the Beta 57 directly into channel 2.
I did a gig yesterday using this for the first time yesterday and the sound was a revelation. It wasn't 'my bass but louder', but it was a double bass and damn good sounding one at that - woody, warm thumpy and clear all at once.

I am really learning to appreciate the incredible flexibility the focus affords with its ability to mix up to four signals at once!! Once my new Biesele magnetic arrives things will start to get really interesting....:hmm:
 
#4
I was blending an Underwood and Realist for a while with the Focus (and a Raven Labs PMB II) but eventually I found the Underwood along (with some EQ) gives up a better tone through my rig. I did start adding a condenser mic (crammed in the afterlength, pointed between the bridge) to the Underwood and this does blend well.
 
#5
I used to blend an Underwood and a Realist with a small mixer I also had the K&K mic on there too. I ran the whole signal through a Sansamp. I really liked the sound I got.

(The next part is about the 'Easy Button' approach. If you are tired of hearing me talk about it, skip this post.)

Then I had a mental shift. I needed to simplify. I left all that stuff at home one day, even the mic. I ran my Realist straight into my amp, no mixer, no preamp. I also relied more on my hands to pull the most out of my bass. I was able to achieve a similar sound with just messing with the eq. I lost a little but so little that the gain in not having a million dials to mess with was worth it. I felt like I needed to focus on my playing and was being distracted by the amp. It helped me immensely.

I only post this as a caution based on my experience. Everybody has to do what is right for them. I have (as I'm sure many of you have) gone back and forth a million times. I think I have decided on less is more. I started to lose sight of the thing that I needed to be focusing energy on at gigs. Playing.
 
#6
I've done a bunch of that too. The sound in that fashion I've liked the best is the Realist/Underwood pairing.

I realized one day that I didn't need all that really.

I had plugged in the Full Circle and the underwood into the Focus, didn't mess with the EQ or anything else, just turned it up loud enough that I had still had to play like a DB player. Didn't notice till the second set that the channel with the Underwood was off and I didn't miss it. Upon discovery I turned the Underwood on and found I didn't like it as much. Thinned out the sound and was slightly subtractive rather than additive, even when playing with phasing.

So I took the Underwood off.

Had the same experience with the Sennheiser Mic one day, thought they were both running but the mic channel was switched off.

In both cases I sounded fine, I wasn't thinking about my tone, I was just playing music. Sometimes I miss the mic, and when I do, because I carry it around with me, I'll plug it in and try it again on a gig. Sometimes it's better but half the time it's not, it feeds back and just gets in the way, and I take it off and put it back away until I miss it again.

What's the point? I dunno, I guess I can use as much or as little gear as I want and still make decent music.

I've been in a less is more mood lately.
 
#7
fingers said:
I used to blend an Underwood and a Realist with a small mixer I also had the K&K mic on there too. I ran the whole signal through a Sansamp. I really liked the sound I got.

(The next part is about the 'Easy Button' approach. If you are tired of hearing me talk about it, skip this post.)

Then I had a mental shift. I needed to simplify. I left all that stuff at home one day, even the mic. I ran my Realist straight into my amp, no mixer, no preamp. I also relied more on my hands to pull the most out of my bass. I was able to achieve a similar sound with just messing with the eq. I lost a little but so little that the gain in not having a million dials to mess with was worth it. I felt like I needed to focus on my playing and was being distracted by the amp. It helped me immensely.

I only post this as a caution based on my experience. Everybody has to do what is right for them. I have (as I'm sure many of you have) gone back and forth a million times. I think I have decided on less is more. I started to lose sight of the thing that I needed to be focusing energy on at gigs. Playing.
Click to expand...
Dude. We were thinking the same thing at the same time.

Spooky.
 
#8
Uncletoad said:
Dude. We were thinking the same thing at the same time.

Spooky.
Click to expand...

It should be about the playing and not the gadgets. I've gotten caught up in needing to buy this and then to buy that when most of what we need is located at the ends of our fingers.

Many thimes I think what contributes to this disease is when we don't play purely acoustic very much, if any at all. When all the gigs require amplification, then we forget what the natural sound of the instrument is like and a lot of what we want to hear comes from our attack and our playing positions, plus what each bass brings to the equation.

Hopefully, with a few more treatments, I can wean myself from this gear aquisiton symdrome. :)
 
#9
M Ramsey said:
Hopefully, with a few more treatments, I can wean myself from this gear aquisiton symdrome. :)
Click to expand...

I just had to go cold turkey.


I always think back to a board I posted on years ago. I posted a question much the one here. The response I got "Sell oll that shi*. Get a Realist, a small amp, and a plane ticket to NYC". I like where I live but the message definitely got through.
 
#14
Think what you may but I had the best gig in a long time last night. I plugged both pickups in and forgot about them. I had the articulation of the BP-100 and the thump of the Realist at the same time for the first time EVER. I just concentrated on playing and not trying to bring out the bottom with the BP-100 or the bring out the top with the Realist. I hit just about everything I tried to do last night. I'm still in a state of euphoria. When the sound is right, you can play anything.

Considering it is just an additional preamp and a cord, it really isn't so much extra; the pickups were already on the bass. It is considerably less set up than the AMT mic I used to haul around. I ran the BP 100 into the hi Z input of the Focus 2, the Realist into the preamp into the mic input and used one AI cabinet. It took an extra 30 seconds to set up and set the mix.

When I record, I use a mic and mix a little bit of pickup into it. This isn't any different except I don't have to worry about feedback and bleed from other instruments. I have a bit of an audio engineering background so setting the mix with the pickups was pretty easy. There wasn't a lot of tweaking.

mark
 
#15
I used to use a "Double Bass Max" custom pickup which was basically one Bass Max in each bridge wing slot. I liked being able to control the balance. I hated the Realist by itself, but probably would have liked it better mixed with a bright p/u like the BP100 or Underwood. I've been using the Full Circle mixed with a dynamic mic for the past year or so, and I really like it. With the Focus 2R, it really only involves an extra cable since the mic stays on the bass even in the case.

It really is nice to just plug in and focus on making music. It's nice to know that small balance adjustments can easily be made though.

And having said all of that, I'd love to get a chance to try the Beyer M88 for the mic end of things. Y'know, just to see if it sounds any better than the Beta 58... :D
 
#16
Chris Fitzgerald said:
I used to use a "Double Bass Max" custom pickup which was basically one Bass Max in each bridge wing slot. I liked being able to control the balance. I hated the Realist by itself, but probably would have liked it better mixed with a bright p/u like the BP100 or Underwood. I've been using the Full Circle mixed with a dynamic mic for the past year or so, and I really like it. With the Focus 2R, it really only involves an extra cable since the mic stays on the bass even in the case.

It really is nice to just plug in and focus on making music. It's nice to know that small balance adjustments can easily be made though.

And having said all of that, I'd love to get a chance to try the Beyer M88 for the mic end of things. Y'know, just to see if it sounds any better than the Beta 58... :D
Click to expand...

From that last statement, I'd say you are still infected with GAS, right? :smug:
 
#17
M Ramsey said:
From that last statement, I'd say you are still infected with GAS, right? :smug:
Click to expand...

Just a little "leakage" once in awhile. :) The good thing is, it mostly happens when I'm surfing TB. Onstage, I just deal with the sound I'm able to get with what I have, which is plenty good enough to make meaningful music with. Good times!
 
#19
A couple of years ago I was running a realist and underwood on my kay bass with an adapter I purchased from Radio Shack for 3 dollars. It seemed to work well. Yesterday I was listening to some old live recordings and I hated the bass sound. Funny how things change.... Now I have a full circle for my Juzek. I am convinced that the sound of the full circle is the best pickup sound out there (for my bass). I have not even thought about blending it with anything, including the Audix mic i purchased shortly before I got the full circle.
 
#20
joel kelsey said:
A couple of years ago I was running a realist and underwood on my kay bass with an adapter I purchased from Radio Shack for 3 dollars. It seemed to work well. Yesterday I was listening to some old live recordings and I hated the bass sound. Funny how things change.... Now I have a full circle for my Juzek. I am convinced that the sound of the full circle is the best pickup sound out there (for my bass). I have not even thought about blending it with anything, including the Audix mic i purchased shortly before I got the full circle.
Click to expand...

The $3 adapter may have had something to do with it. The signal chain is only as good as the weakest link. You don't put bargain tires on a Porsche.

It sounds like the Full Circle pickup does what I'm doing with combining pickups. Some of the low end of the Realist combined with the brightness of a BP100. Unfortunately, the bridge adjusters on all of my basses are the fat Kolstein style which are too big for the First Circle. I'd have to get another bridge cut to use the FC. That ain't gonna happen on the off-chance that the FC is the answer to all of my prayers. The pre-amp and extra cord aren't that much to haul around. I can still make it to the gig from my car in one trip with all of my equipment and bass.

mark
 

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