Coming back to bass (properly) some advice?

[Matthews2250]

Hello!

Quick bit of back-story for you:
I've been playing bass for about 16/17 years now (started when I was 14) but have gone through cycles of a few years on - a few years off for probably the last 8/9 of those (oddly, coinciding with when I got a proper job...). The last couple of years have been particularly bad for my playing (met wife, married wife, moved house, had baby) but I'm keen to get back into the swing of things properly.

Technically, I'm not terrible, I performed most recently in July at a friend's wedding without embarrassing myself - so I can learn things relatively well given time and once I get my chops back. (Remembering them after is another story)

The trouble I have, and always have had, its that I'm functionally illiterate when it comes to theory.

I know scales, I know what modes are and know (roughly) how chords are put together - but applying that knowledge in a practical sense completely escapes me. I can noodle around in a scale or within a mode, but when I come to learn a song it's almost like that a completely separate and mechanical world.

My question is - where should I start in order to try and join the dots? Are there any resources that would be particularly helpful for me?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Paulabass]

Scott's bass lessons. You can grab the videos free on youtube, or buy the whole package which includes tracks, and notation.
Scott's is too advanced for a beginner, but if you have the basics down, it's accelerated learning. He teaches, and applies theory while still offering hands on instruction. He's the best I've found for an intermediate player.

Ah, yes. nothing like domestic bliss to stifle creativity.

 

[Mushroo]

A couple of tips for learning applied music theory:

1. Take a song you know very well (perhaps something from your wedding-band repertoire), write it out in standard notation, and analyze it from a music-theory perspective. Ask yourself questions like: What is the key signature? What is the time signature? What is the chord progression? How do the notes of the bass line relate to the chord tones of the progression? Does the song modulate to any other keys? What's going on rhythmically? Are there any interesting musical ideas going on with the vocals or other instruments? etc.
2. Pick a music-theory concept that you want to study, then turn on the radio (or your favorite streaming service) and listen for examples of that concept in practice. For example let's say you are learning about diminished chords. Turn on the radio and listen for all the songs that use diminished chords. Maybe give yourself a little reward (like a piece of candy) every time you hear a diminished chord.

 

[mambo4]

Theory roadmap for a bass player seeking to support harmony:

1.) the 12 intervals
2.) learn how 7 of the 12 intervals build the major & minor scale
3.) learn how the intervals build triads and 4 note chords
4.) learn how harmonize the major scale and see chords as I,ii,iii,IV, V, vi, vii(dim)
5.) learn about perfect and plagal cadences
6.) learn the chord progressions for the blues & rhyhtm changes

for each element of these you should learn:

• the most common names
• how to play it
• what it sounds like

That will give you a solid grounding. I would view other theory (modes ) as a distraction until your solid on these.

As @Mushroo said, seek out theory in the wild, and reverse engineer songs that you like.

Qiestions to ask when analysing a phrase

• What is the song's key center?
• What is the phrases key center, and its relationship to song's key?
• What is the current chord(s) and its relationship to song's key?
• Which notes of the phrase are chord tones?
• Which notes are passing tones?
• How do the passing tones relate to the chord and key center?
• Which tones are chromatic?

Basically transform your understanding of the riff from Named notes and chords

C D E F F# G
Cmaj Fmaj G7​

to numbered intervals and roman numeral (functional) harmony

1 2 3 4 #4 5
I IV V7​

and you'll have freed the phrase from its source context
and created a tool for your musical toolbox


See also the link in my signature

Also Make J Smith (Tlakingbass.net )has a good playlist

 

[lfmn16]

Find a qualified teacher. The problem with videos is that there is no feedback.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes, what to do with all that stuff we learned is the question. Couple of ways;

1) Find sheet music with the bass clef on music you like and see what that song writer did, i.e. how did he compose the harmony line. If you like it do the same.

2) Theory books, no not the 25 page stuff we find on Amazon, books at your library. If you have a college or university in your area their book store will have what I'm talking about.

It's the why do certain things work together and why do certain things not work together - that you are looking for. And then we have not talked about rhythm...... A couple of drum lessons might be time well spent.

I spent some time looking into the cajon.... as an inexpensive addition to a youth praise band. Learned a few things....

Never did learn how to play a kit, but, I know more about what the drummer and I can do to be together than I did before I started.

Have fun.

 

[JRA]

i like Paulabass 's suggestion, but i would even offer up the idea of taking lessons with some emphasis on theory stuff. the cool thing about lessons is that you can go at your own pace and take as many or as few lessons as you want/need.

ha! https://www.talkbass.com/members/lfmn16.202464/ nails it again as i was typing my response to the OP.

 

[LeeNunn]

A couple of tips for learning applied music theory:

1. Take a song you know very well (perhaps something from your wedding-band repertoire), write it out in standard notation, and analyze it from a music-theory perspective. Ask yourself questions like: What is the key signature? What is the time signature? What is the chord progression? How do the notes of the bass line relate to the chord tones of the progression? Does the song modulate to any other keys? What's going on rhythmically? Are there any interesting musical ideas going on with the vocals or other instruments? etc.
2. Pick a music-theory concept, then turn on the radio (or your favorite streaming service) and listen for examples of that concept in practice. For example let's say you are learning about diminished chords. Turn on the radio and listen for all the songs that use diminished chords. Maybe give yourself a little reward (like a piece of candy) every time you hear a diminished chord.

I completely agree with lfmn16 on getting a teacher, but not everyone's schedule or pocketbook lends itself to that. If you want to pursue the DIY approach (or in addition to getting a teacher), I second Mushroom's suggestion. Building on his suggestion, I recommend starting with an easy song for which you have the standard notation. Don't compare your version to the transcription until you're done. The transcription will serve as the feedback you need. Don't focus on just the notes. Time signature, key signature, chords, rhythmic notation are just as important as the individual pitches. Identifying the chords, understanding the notes in the chord, and how the bass line relates to those chord tones is a great way to learn. If you spend the time, you'll be amazed at how quickly you progress. You can just use youtube videos and pencil & paper, but there are software tools to make the process easier. You can find lots of quality transcriptions right here on TB, and most of the posters would be glad to discuss the specifics of their transcriptions. It's a very giving and open community.

 

[IamGroot]

Sign up for a music course in jazz performance at the local community college. Avoid classical theory. You want something you can use.

 

[IamGroot]

Clarifying my post above, music theory is something to help you understand what you hear and what you want play. Jazz theory is nice because jazz has abroad range of harmonic structures in its songs. As a bassist playing jazz, you will need to understand those structures as you play your walking line. So you learn to look at a sequence of chord changed and recognize, aha, thats a xyz cadence based on the zzz scale. You dont have to like jazz, just learn enough to recognize whats going on musically. Music in other genres like rock, blues, country etc can easily be understood in the context of jazz theory.

Theory is good, but you need to put it to work to make it meaningful.

 

[IamGroot]

Apologies for more hot air here.

Ideally, after using theory for a while, you will internalize it in you playing without thinking. Your playing will be analagous to a person reading aloud something he understands rather than something he doesnt.

I saw a video of a great rock bass player at a seminar and they played a jazz standard. Decent performance but i dont think he understood the changes. He trotted out his bag of pentatonic tricks which really didnt work.

 

[Wfrance3]

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[Matthews2250]

Thanks for all the replies - much as I'd like to get a teacher, cost and regular time slots are not currently on my side with a young family (babies are both expensive and time consuming!) + commuting.

What I'm getting from this is that, for a DIY approach, I need to:

• Buy some manuscript paper/notebooks and re-learn how to read/write music (I think I've forgotten how to read music more times than I've learned!)
• Transcribe like a mad-man
• Break down songs paying mind to the roadmap and questions @Mushroo & @mambo4 suggested
• Learn some jazz (and try not to suck too hard at it)
• Find some good books

 

[SteveCS]

Sign up for a music course in jazz performance at the local community college. Avoid classical theory. You want something you can use.

Careful...

 

[IamGroot]

Thanks for all the replies - much as I'd like to get a teacher, cost and regular time slots are not currently on my side with a young family (babies are both expensive and time consuming!) + commuting.

What I'm getting from this is that, for a DIY approach, I need to:

• Buy some manuscript paper/notebooks and re-learn how to read/write music (I think I've forgotten how to read music more times than I've learned!)
• Transcribe like a mad-man
• Break down songs paying mind to the roadmap and questions @Mushroo & @mambo4 suggested
• Learn some jazz (and try not to suck too hard at it)
• Find some good books

Consider going on line and getting some free transcriptions of walking bass lines, esp Ray Brown. Analyze every note relative to the chord. What is the note scale degree and why does he use it?

If you analyze a transcribed line on TB, i am sure you will get lots of comments from the experts here.

 

[IamGroot]

Or start with a Paul McCartney bass line. He really isnt as crappy as people say.

 

[IamGroot]

"Come Together" would be an interesting start.