Compact live sound for a duo

[4Mal]

My trio does acoustic gigs with a k12 on a stick behind us and sometimes a k10 on the floor mostly for me. The sound quality is exceptional. We sell a lot of work. The sound quality is a part of that. Some of the stuff mentioned in this thread is truly not in the same league.

 

[MakoMan]

While I can understand not wanting to use expensive gear where it might be damaged. I have some EAW speakers that cost a small fortune that I would be hesitant to use at a bar gig. I tried using my powerwerks speaker as an external speaker for my computer and it sucked big time. If I was trying to learn a bass part off of you tube you couldn't hear the low end at all. I now use a Yamaha DXR10 with a Yamaha MG10xu mixer so I can play my bass through it at the same time. I have a pair of DXR12s with a DXS12 sub connected to my TV when not used for a gig.

Nice setup. While I've not used the little Powerwerks monitor you have, I have heard it is lacking. I don't have a low end issue with my PA50s. I only bring the sub if I am playing bass guitar through them. They'll handle the bass on their own, but obviously the sub or a bass amp helps a lot. I have however done a couple of small parties where I brought a PA50 for both the bass and vocals with no sub and had no problem at all. For the computer I use an Ampeg BA-108 that is permanently set up there.
Here is the really funny thing... we also have a Bose L1 acoustic system. You would think that if our band was playing an acoustic gig and wanted to use a small portable acoustic system we would use the Bose, but we actually like the sound of the PA50s better and believe it or not, they provide better coverage. Also the Bose does not handle the bass that well so I would need to bring a bass amp or the Kustom sub if we used it anyway.

 

[modulusman]

Nice setup. While I've not used the little Powerwerks monitor you have, I have heard it is lacking. I don't have a low end issue with my PA50s. I only bring the sub if I am playing bass guitar through them. They'll handle the bass on their own, but obviously the sub or a bass amp helps a lot. I have however done a couple of small parties where I brought a PA50 for both the bass and vocals with no sub and had no problem at all. For the computer I use an Ampeg BA-108 that is permanently set up there.
Here is the really funny thing... we also have a Bose L1 acoustic system. You would think that if our band was playing an acoustic gig and wanted to use a small portable acoustic system we would use the Bose, but we actually like the sound of the PA50s better and believe it or not, they provide better coverage. Also the Bose does not handle the bass that well so I would need to bring a bass amp or the Kustom sub if we used it anyway.

Well the monitor I have probably uses the same 4.5 inch speaker yours does but only one of them instead of 2. Even if yours sounded twice as good it would be no where near the sound quality of a K12. You never know who could be listening and thinking about hiring music for an event. My thinking is always sound your best. A PA system can always be turned down so it isn't overkill no matter the size of the room. The EAW system I mentioned earlier only gets used about 12-15 times a year at one venue. It consists of 2 tops and 2 subs and the room we use it in is about 1200-1500 sq. ft. and the crowd is usually about 50-75 people.

 

[MakoMan]

Well the monitor I have probably uses the same 4.5 inch speaker yours does but only one of them instead of 2. Even if yours sounded twice as good it would be no where near the sound quality of a K12. You never know who could be listening and thinking about hiring music for an event. My thinking is always sound your best. A PA system can always be turned down so it isn't overkill no matter the size of the room. The EAW system I mentioned earlier only gets used about 12-15 times a year at one venue. It consists of 2 tops and 2 subs and the room we use it in is about 1200-1500 sq. ft. and the crowd is usually about 50-75 people.

While I understand your point I'm not too worried about not sounding good enough to get the next gig. They're not K12s but they sound great. We've booked lots of gigs from events where we used the Kustoms. I worry a lot more about us playing our best than I do about whether our little rig will sound good... it does.
I wish we were closer so you could come over and try out my set of PA50s, or even come see the band do a gig with them. I think you would be surprised.
In any case I think we have pretty much beaten this subject to death

 

[modulusman]

While I understand your point I'm not too worried about not sounding good enough to get the next gig. They're not K12s but they sound great. We've booked lots of gigs from events where we used the Kustoms. I worry a lot more about us playing our best than I do about whether our little rig will sound good... it does.
I wish we were closer so you could come over and try out my set of PA50s, or even come see the band do a gig with them. I think you would be surprised.
In any case I think we have pretty much beaten this subject to death

How about good paying gigs? I doubt you were getting much more than tips from those gigs you posted in those videos. The local music store where I bought my powerwerks monitor had one of your speakers setup a while back. Next time in in there if they still have it I will give it a listen. A guy who use to post over at Harmony Central bought one of those a few years back against my advice and had it fail at a gig a short time later. He sent me a PM saying he wished he would have listened.

 

[MakoMan]

How about good paying gigs? I doubt you were getting much more than tips from those gigs you posted in those videos. The local music store where I bought my powerwerks monitor had one of your speakers setup a while back. Next time in in there if they still have it I will give it a listen. A guy who use to post over at Harmony Central bought one of those a few years back against my advice and had it fail at a gig a short time later. He sent me a PM saying he wished he would have listened.

Again, thanks for the advice. Mine has never let me down, despite my cat knocking it over several times. Our rhythm guitarist has had his PA50 for two years and uses it literally every day; his brother has had a PA50 and a 100 for the same period and they both always work flawlessly. I got the sub used for $100 and it works perfectly. A local and quite well known blues musician has been using two of the Kustom subs below a pair of QSC K10s for at least a couple of years. They mic the drums through it and it always sounds great.
We're not a professional band, just a local cover band of middle-aged rockers, but we do OK. For our area we get as many gigs and are as well paid as anyone. We're certainly not making a living playing music, nor do we need to. The events for which we use the Kustoms are generally low paying or unpaid gigs, charity events or backyard or basement parties. You want us to do a low pay small acoustic gig, you get the Kustoms. A larger acoustic gig we will use the QSCs and/or the EVs. For the full rock show we bring the full QSC/EV system including rented QSC subs. We play as a full 4-piece Classic Rock band, a trio, or as an acoustic 4-piece, trio or duo. We bring whatever is required for whatever gig, including the number of band members we need. We even occasionally play completely unplugged.
Oh, and here is our rehearsal space!

 

[jthisdell]

I am in a three piece Bluegrass group, acoustic guitar, banjo, a little fiddle, a little harp, three vocals. For small gigs and practicing we use a Bose system with a small mixer for everything but my bass and I then use a small amp. The Bose is pricy but very clear and feedback is rarely a problem, we usually run it behind us as a monitor at larger gigs or as a stand alone for smaller. It has a miniature mixer in it, two inputs, one mic one line or instrument and basic eq so for the OP's use he would not need the additional mixer.. For the bass part it is far simpler IMHO to use whatever smallish amp you like and then run everything else through a PA. To get a PA to really handle bass you need have larger (or at least better) speakers, more wattage, etc. on the PA side. For instance, we use the smallest Bose but to get one that would handle bass is like twice as much.

 

[seanm]

For small duo gigs the singer/guitar player uses a small acoustic guitar amp with a mic input. Sometimes he chains another small guitar amp off it, but not always.

I use the same old boring combo amp I use for all my gigs.

For these gigs we are going for a volume that people can talk comfortably over and minimal setup/teardown.

 

[MNAirHead]

I only do duo gigs/trio gigs.

I personally own 2 Bose L1s... also have some bigger sub+mains

OVERALL, I suggest a separate small amp (it takes some time to find the right one for the mix)

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I've used the PW50... it's good... so don't underestimate the options. I own some. They do need some form of sub.

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OPINION - Visual>Sound

Overall, there's way way way too much emphasis on Using K12s, K10s, L2s etc (yes I own them)

I get paid very well and work as much as I want. What's the difference... marketing and image. I'm always amazed that how sloppy duos and trios are... between appearance... piles of junk... lack of clean printed marketing materials etc... heck most duos don't have pro pix and/or a website you can find.

I'd suggest that if you're in the duo/trio circles, that about half of the budget should be visual.... ditch the crazy clothes... put the cases in the car... clean up your gear and straighten the cords...

I hear many more complaints about volume and footprint than I do quality.. this is where the bose stuff shines... unfortunately it's not cheap...

 

[moody]

This is all personal opinion.

The guitarists amp is never going to sound as good as a proper decent vocal PA for vocals. As a duo you are selling your vocals above all else.

My opinion, get 1 good quality full range speaker and a small sub with crossover. Use a small but good quality mixer and put everything through it. You don't need stereo and will be able to set up in a smaller area. Use your guitarists amp as a vocal monitor.

Also my opinion. Attempt to learn to sing harmony. You will have a product that will be 10 times as useful as 'solo artist, now with added bass!'

 

[MakoMan]

I only do duo gigs/trio gigs.

I personally own 2 Bose L1s... also have some bigger sub+mains

OVERALL, I suggest a separate small amp (it takes some time to find the right one for the mix)

------

I've used the PW50... it's good... so don't underestimate the options. I own some. They do need some form of sub.

-----

OPINION - Visual>Sound

Overall, there's way way way too much emphasis on Using K12s, K10s, L2s etc (yes I own them)

I get paid very well and work as much as I want. What's the difference... marketing and image. I'm always amazed that how sloppy duos and trios are... between appearance... piles of junk... lack of clean printed marketing materials etc... heck most duos don't have pro pix and/or a website you can find.

I'd suggest that if you're in the duo/trio circles, that about half of the budget should be visual.... ditch the crazy clothes... put the cases in the car... clean up your gear and straighten the cords...

I hear many more complaints about volume and footprint than I do quality.. this is where the bose stuff shines... unfortunately it's not cheap...

+1000... Agree with pretty much everything in this post.

 

[MNAirHead]

This is all personal opinion.

The guitarists amp is never going to sound as good as a proper decent vocal PA for vocals. As a duo you are selling your vocals above all else.

My opinion, get 1 good quality full range speaker and a small sub with crossover. Use a small but good quality mixer and put everything through it. You don't need stereo and will be able to set up in a smaller area. Use your guitarists amp as a vocal monitor.

Also my opinion. Attempt to learn to sing harmony. You will have a product that will be 10 times as useful as 'solo artist, now with added bass!'

IF this is your first step... You really don't need a sub... I'd be more careful of footprint than gear...

I hear many more venues concerned when they see traditional drums and/or traditional guitar amps....

There are a lot of classier paying venues that will freak when you bring in a traditional sub (I own a smaller EV)...

The fishman/bose stuff "looks"smaller OR a single Alto10 is plenty for up to about 150 people.

The PW50 are fantastic monitors as they're sleek, slim and small.

 

[MNAirHead]

If you're in a duo.. spend $10 at a garage sale and get some black sheets... cover up your junk.

 

[jimfist]

A few of us have been waiting to see if Turbosound will ever release their iNSPIRE speaker systems, at 3 price points, all under $799 US:

On paper, these things look perfect for coffee house acoustic solo/duo/trio acts, and I've been dying to get my hands on a pair of the iP2000 speakers. Unfortunately, there is no word on whether these will see the light of day, or what is going on with them.