Compressing.. limiting..

[mui]

Hi, I'm pretty new here, sorry for my mess but I was just wondering if you guys have any ideas how I should proceed.

I'm looking replacement for my EHX Blackfinger, mainly due pedal itself is not delivering what I'm expecting it to do so far.
I've been quite happy with Blackfingers way to cope with limiting, it does limit gracefully against tube producing warm soft clipping, eg. I can hear when I take it too far and it tries to keep it in shape in a very good manner. Tradeoff here is that it does color middle-range somewhat, which I do not like at all, and also it is difficult to keep it in good setup as so called average level vs. when it starts to limit output varies, I can't expect it to behave same way when it did yesterday, easily breaking clean sound in ad-hoc recording sessions, only to realize it afterwards.
Also way it picks up noise floor from range it shouldn't, creating unnecessary noise is a no no also.

I would wish to have nothing too expensive but something that would be able to provide decent sound quality to my solid state amp, little compression to help me to cope with dynamics of my bass and beautiful limiting when rocking too hard. Thanks for your opinions.

(oh, and I tested this EBS Dualband pedal some days ago, which I didn't like at all, way it did compress was nice but when I pushed it to limit, it went all digital "hey don't do this", which is not what I'm after

 

[cheapbasslovin]

Compressors are tricky, but I'll recommend that you look here for all the info. His site has a bunch of info on how they work, and a boatload of reviews on the pedals themselves.

In the future I'd also post compressor questions in the effects forum, since all the effects hounds hang out there.

 

[jimfist]

it sounds to me like you need general compression at a 2:1 ratio (or less) up front for overall leveling when playing normally, and then limiting at the back end when you start "rocking too hard". It's not unheard of for bassists to use two compressors as described above, but it's certainly not the norm. Employing this technique properly does take some knowledge and skill, in addition to selecting the proper compression/limiting tools for their respective jobs.

When recording/mixing, generous amounts of compression, multi-band compression, and limiting are common for rock/pop records in the modern era. The key is knowing what the right tool is and using it properly. From your description, your dilemma would probably be classified as "corrective" (limiting) than nominal leveling "sweetening" (mild compression). One is definitely easier and preferable to the other.

Seems to me that you may want to consider reigning in the extremes of your playing dynamics. In other words, either play softer when you are at your loudest, or play harder when you're at your softest...or both. (Part of "dynamics control" starts with the player controlling his dynamics.) This will allow a compressor to work well without introducing the artifacts you have been experiencing. But if you still can't control yourself when you're playing aggressively, then you may not have many options other than to spend some serious $$$ on a high end compressor that can handle your playing without the ill artifacts. For most players, it's more practical and better practice to work on your technique.

I have a soft spot deep in my heart for going all "punk" and getting crazy, which flies in the face of playing with technique and control, I guess. In that case I'd say you should just get yourself an all tube Ampeg SVT Classic and 8x10 cabinet an call it a day. Crank it up and let the tubes do their thing, squishing and squashing in a pleasant manner, which is why so many bassists love them.

 

[mui]

it sounds to me like you need general compression at a 2:1 ratio (or less) up front for overall leveling when playing normally, and then limiting at the back end when you start "rocking too hard". It's not unheard of for bassists to use two compressors as described above, but it's certainly not the norm. Employing this technique properly does take some knowledge and skill, in addition to selecting the proper compression/limiting tools for their respective jobs.

This is exactly kind of information I was after, I wandered around internet and found out that some people were using two DBX 160a/x's in setup like this, It wonders as they seem to have static attack/release related to input signal, only threshold and gain along with actual compress ratio are variable. They are not that expensive on ebay, and some say x-version does very well on lower end while keeping everything else transparent.

When recording/mixing, generous amounts of compression, multi-band compression, and limiting are common for rock/pop records in the modern era. The key is knowing what the right tool is and using it properly. From your description, your dilemma would probably be classified as "corrective" (limiting) than nominal leveling "sweetening" (mild compression). One is definitely easier and preferable to the other.

Seems to me that you may want to consider reigning in the extremes of your playing dynamics. In other words, either play softer when you are at your loudest, or play harder when you're at your softest...or both. (Part of "dynamics control" starts with the player controlling his dynamics.) This will allow a compressor to work well without introducing the artifacts you have been experiencing. But if you still can't control yourself when you're playing aggressively, then you may not have many options other than to spend some serious $$$ on a high end compressor that can handle your playing without the ill artifacts. For most players, it's more practical and better practice to work on your technique.

*grins* I do need to learn to control my playing and dynamics more, I do agree, but also while sucking at proper control I also have a bass with very wide dynamic range so to say and signal tends to be really hot, really fast, it gets very easily to the point where I clip on my solid state amp, which I don't essentially want to do. If it gets "too hot" I want to hear it to happen in smooth tube-loving way.

I have a soft spot deep in my heart for going all "punk" and getting crazy, which flies in the face of playing with technique and control, I guess. In that case I'd say you should just get yourself an all tube Ampeg SVT Classic and 8x10 cabinet an call it a day. Crank it up and let the tubes do their thing, squishing and squashing in a pleasant manner, which is why so many bassists love them.

As how much I would like to, I haven't never really liked ampeg amps somehow, but I do understand why people like them and pushing 8x10" around little gigs isn't quite effective for my back as I would like to Unfortunately I'm married to my Markbass SD800 in this, for now.

Thank you very much for your thoughts and if someone wishes to move this to effect department, its fine by me if you feel its more proper location for post like this.

 

[jimfist]

yeah, the SVT comment was tongue in cheek. When you say things distort when you play hard, I assume you mean that the amp's preamp input is distorting, right? With active basses that have hot output, I've experienced exactly what you're talking about. Some pedals and processors I've used just cannot deal with the loudest transients that these basses put out direct from the bass. With nothing other than the bass plugged into your Markbass head, can you set the input gain so that it doesn't distort at all when you dig in hard?

I had a problem with a stomp multi effect which would distort unpleasantly. It turned out to be the stomp's input. My GK head allowed me to pad it's input preamp so that it would not distort...ever...so then I put the stomp multi effect in its effects loop. Problem solved. You may want to try this method out. If you do go the dual comp route, try one in front of the head for the mild leveling, and the harder limiting comp in the effects loop of the head.