Compressor Pedal Use (New Bass Player)

[Fuzzbass]

But I've just never understood the claim that it doesn't reduce dynamics.

I never said anything like that, I said that they generally do more than just that. Long attack time enhances dynamic response by exaggerating the transient relative to the tail of the note. It doesn't increase dynamics per se, but with makeup gain plus compression of the tail of the note you get the appearance of expansion rather than the overall flattening that can come from full on compression.

 

[stubbsonic]

I never said anything like that, I said that they generally do more than just that. Long attack time enhances dynamic response by exaggerating the transient relative to the tail of the note. It doesn't increase dynamics per se, but with makeup gain plus compression of the tail of the note you get the appearance of expansion rather than the overall flattening that can come from full on compression.

I guess to put more of a point on it, a compressor always reduces dynamics and for some vintage compressors, may add saturation. Saying it enhances dynamic response is probably a little misleading. perhaps more specifically it can shape the envelope of a sound,

Again, I'm not saying compressors aren't useful for some situations. And the reduction of dynamic range might be subtle.

I used to play in a group where the keyboard/piano player used a volume pedal. It was a super dynamic band, going from whisper quiet music under dialog to very aggressive loud dance sections with punchy accents. I tried a compressor (a good one) a couple times. I'd have to find some delicate line between working harder to be quiet enough, or disappearing when the music got loud. I'd dig in and get nothing back. Playing without a compressor was glorious. The compressor was just the wrong tool for that context.

 

[Stranger Danger]

Absolutely wouldn’t worry about compression right now. Get your amp and have fun. At least 500 watts

 

[GreyBeard]

Invariably, some sort of compression ends up on whatever tracks I’ve recorded but I’ve never found much use for it live.

This is where I am with compression. Every time I've tried to use one live I ended up turning it off. (jmho)

 

[Deleted member 409773]

I use 4 compressors live (and 8 compressors in studio: 2 Empress Bass MKII's, Cali76 v2, 1176LN, LA-2A, 2xDistressor EL8X, and I have the compressor on lows on my Darkglass X Ultra distortion when I use that pedal in Djent/nu-metal/death metal etc.).

I play with two bands (one is a progressive Djent, nu-metal, second is a funk hip-hop). I use compressors all the time, when I'm recording, live, if you know how to set a comp is good in every style of music and in every situation. If your bass is sounding better without a comp you don't know how to set a comp for different situations (I have 3-4 comps on my live boards because I need different types of compression!).

The compressor is a tool, if you want more sustain or more kick/punch, if you want less dynamics or you want the same dynamics combined with more kick or more sustain. For this is the NY Style/parallel compression: uncompressed signal with all your dynamics mixed with a compressed signal, and with the Cali76 v2 you have a trick for endless lows (the bottomless quality of the Urei 1176), so you will perceive more dynamics. Why? Because with parallel compression you have all your dynamics nealterated, but the make up gain of your 1176 (or Cali76 v2) will push the bottomless lows in your face. With Attack/Release you have the possibility to add punch or sustain or both with dual-stage compression (two comps in series).

If you know how to use comps your bass will cut the mix better. An example: I want a warm "badroom" scooped sound, and everybody is aware that sound it's not a mix cutter, but with the Empress comp I have a trick, I cut the 500hz for the scooped sound, but I will add harmonic distorsion, more slow attack and faster release for the transients to pop up (to cut in the mix better). And I will use the parallel comp technique, the scooped punchy sound with a little harmonic distortion from my comp combined with a nealterated non-scooped sound of my instrument. The sound will be more present, more in your face, warmer.

 

[klattman]

 

[klattman]

Mwah on a fretless is a type of compression The harder you pluck, the more the fretboard interferes with the string amplitude and dampens it, adding dustortion/harmonic content/higher vibration modes in the process.

 

[EastDakota]

Another thing to consider is that you're not a real bassist until you've argued about compressors online. Like some people feel like they need them and some don't, that's fine, what's the issue. Personally I use it recording but don't feel like I need it live.

 

[stubbsonic]

I use compressors all the time, when I'm recording, live, if you know how to set a comp is good in every style of music and in every situation.

You've got some unique insights into the various flavors of compression, and how they can be used.

I'm super happy with my bass sound. It's rich, dynamic, I have control over it. When I dig in, it speaks. You would hate it.

The only time I've ever found a compressor to improve my sound is for slap.

If your bass is sounding better without a comp you don't know how to set a comp for different situations (I have 3-4 comps on my live boards because I need different types of compression!).

This statement got under my skin at first. But I'm ok now. You really love compression and you have a hard time understanding why other people would want to miss out (?)

You could send me A / B samples of your bass with and without compression and I probably will pick dry every time.

The compressor is a tool, if you want more sustain or more kick/punch, if you want less dynamics or you want the same dynamics combined with more kick or more sustain. For this is the NY Style/parallel compression: uncompressed signal with all your dynamics mixed with a compressed signal, and with the Cali76 v2 you have a trick for endless lows (the bottomless quality of the Urei 1176), so you will perceive more dynamics. Why? Because with parallel compression you have all your dynamics nealterated, but the make up gain of your 1176 (or Cali76 v2) will push the bottomless lows in your face. With Attack/Release you have the possibility to add punch or sustain or both with dual-stage compression (two comps in series).

It is true a compressor can change the envelope of your playing, adding sustain, or exaggerating the attack. However, it can't make you "perceive more dynamics". No matter what words you string together, compression is compression.

I think some of the confusing terminology around compression and playing-dynamics is that two different qualities get conflated; overall volume, and dynamics-induced-timbre-changes. Compression alters the ratio between those two qualities. Maybe that's why compression fans deny that compressors reduce dynamic range.

Compressors are good for copping a specific era/genre. They are good for helping your bass sit well in a compressed mix or with a band full of people using compressors. But there are MANY ordinary situations where a compressor tries to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[evanrunyon]

A recurring issue with bass players, I think we'll all agree, is that we don't know what words mean.

 

[Deleted member 409773]

@stubbsonic
There are compressors and compression techniques. A compressor has the role of compressing, emphasizing the less prominent sounds and cutting the too strong ones, in other words it more or less, it depends on your settings, levels the signal and you have less dynamics. But with different techniques (NY style/parallel comp) you are fighting this inconvenience (if this is a inconvenience for you).

On the Cali76 v2 you have the same bottomless lows like on the old Cali (the big one), max the Attack/Release (slowest attack and fastest release) and the SC HPF and you will enhance the bottomless lows, you will have more perceived/present lows (amplified by the make up gain and not as present on the dry signal) on the compressed signal than on the dry signal (the uncompressed one). Mix together the two signals, the compressed one with the uncompressed one. With this compressor and this specific compression technique you will not lose your dynamics (you have the nealterated uncompresed signal on full range with Dry at 2 o'clock), but you will add more deepness to the sound (this is the specific bottomless effect of the Cali76 v2, but is not present on the Cali76 CB), more punch, more body.

 

[HolmeBass]

Can someone give a brief explanation of why this isn't true?

I can speak for myself. I don’t use a compressor to “control my dynamics”. In fact if I feel even a tiny bit like a compressor is impacting my touch dynamics, I’ll turn it off right away. This is why it was so hard to find a pedal compressor that I can live with.

What I do want from a compressor is a feeling of fatness, pudginess to the tone, and a bit of percussive “Puh” sound to the beginning of the notes. A slight bit of graininess, a gain stage of subtlety but sweetness. I get this from the Cali 76 CB pedal, but they don’t come cheap!

 

[groove pump]

Exactly why i am so confused over them and why just reading other threads about them is just confusing as you see so many different descriptions of what they do and how to use them.

Just for context, I've been playing locally with what I call "hobby bands" for 20-25 years, but I'm not a seasoned pro who has done general business band work, toured with an artist, or anything else like that. I've also only played live shows and not done any studio work where the demands are apparently quite different based on what I've gathered from our pals here.

Lately I've been doing classic rock and dance covers with my current band, I don't use IEM's (nor does anybody else in this group), and I've recently switched from putting all my sound into a space at our gigs using only my stage rig to turning my amp down a little bit and running some of my sound through our PA. Doing this reduces our stage volume, but overall the band still needs more work with that.

I completely respect our pals here who put compression to very good use. There's a lot of comp talk around here and I think that this can give the impression that comp's are among the basics that every bass cat ought to have on hand. I even have a rather nice Aguilar TLC that I experiment with here and there, but I'll admit that I don't use it for gigs. I've only noodled with it off and on, but I haven't run across a setup where I found a significant "want" for it in my signal chain. I'll also admit that I don't do much of any slapping at our gigs, but I'd certainly be wanting to use this TLC at least here and there if I did.

Comps don't all function exactly the same in terms of the specific frequencies that they more readily attenuate when they engage and some can also color our sound. I didn't really know about this when I was experimenting with one or another cheap 'n crummy comp in the past, but then when I tried the Aguilar, I had a true a-HA!! moment. I realized how nice it was to have a much more "transparent" comp that left my tone alone.

My suspicion is that I might get better results using my comp with only certain instruments. I have a custom passive P/J that has an inherently aggressive and mid-forward tone without a big beefy fundamental that I usually like to hear. When I run that bass through my comp, I can thicken up the tone a little bit because those heavy mids are the frequencies that are more readily trimmed through the TLC. With the frequencies a bit more leveled out (TLC active), I hear a little more of the thicker low end when it isn't getting obscured by the honk of those mids. Subtle but rather nice for that specific bass. My other two (passive Jazz and an active bass with two humbuckers) don't need any similar "thickening".

Although I don't have any pressing need or want for a comp in my signal chain for the shows I do now, the gizmo that has become relatively essential for me has been a High Pass Filter (HPF). When I play in a venue where low frequencies can become very unruly as soon as I turn up a little bit, an HPF can be magical in terms of getting that boomy muddiness under control with very little fuss.

So at least for me, it's HPF for live material and I'll keep my comp handy in case somebody wants me to do some recording where I'd bet it could easily be useful for me. Compared with some effects like fuzz, envelope filters, chorus, etc. that are VERY out there with the sounds they do, compressors seem to have their own individual subtleties. I've needed to go the buy-it-to-try-it route to get to know a couple of them and after a lot of years of tweaking here and there, my classroom is still open. In case you're worried that you may need one at this point, I'd say you probably don't. But if you want to grab one and take some time getting to know it, that's great.

 

[HolmeBass]

I use 4 compressors live (and 8 compressors in studio: 2 Empress Bass MKII's, Cali76 v2, 1176LN, LA-2A, 2xDistressor EL8X, and I have the compressor on lows on my Darkglass X Ultra distortion when I use that pedal in Djent/nu-metal/death metal etc.).

I play with two bands (one is a progressive Djent, nu-metal, second is a funk hip-hop). I use compressors all the time, when I'm recording, live, if you know how to set a comp is good in every style of music and in every situation. If your bass is sounding better without a comp you don't know how to set a comp for different situations (I have 3-4 comps on my live boards because I need different types of compression!).

The compressor is a tool, if you want more sustain or more kick/punch, if you want less dynamics or you want the same dynamics combined with more kick or more sustain. For this is the NY Style/parallel compression: uncompressed signal with all your dynamics mixed with a compressed signal, and with the Cali76 v2 you have a trick for endless lows (the bottomless quality of the Urei 1176), so you will perceive more dynamics. Why? Because with parallel compression you have all your dynamics nealterated, but the make up gain of your 1176 (or Cali76 v2) will push the bottomless lows in your face. With Attack/Release you have the possibility to add punch or sustain or both with dual-stage compression (two comps in series).

If you know how to use comps your bass will cut the mix better. An example: I want a warm "badroom" scooped sound, and everybody is aware that sound it's not a mix cutter, but with the Empress comp I have a trick, I cut the 500hz for the scooped sound, but I will add harmonic distorsion, more slow attack and faster release for the transients to pop up (to cut in the mix better). And I will use the parallel comp technique, the scooped punchy sound with a little harmonic distortion from my comp combined with a nealterated non-scooped sound of my instrument. The sound will be more present, more in your face, warmer.

You have a fleet of high-end comps - that doesn’t hurt either.

 

[HolmeBass]

Just for context, I've been playing locally with what I call "hobby bands" for 20-25 years, but I'm not a seasoned pro who has done general business band work, toured with an artist, or anything else like that. I've also only played live shows and not done any studio work where the demands are apparently quite different based on what I've gathered from our pals here.

Lately I've been doing classic rock and dance covers with my current band, I don't use IEM's (nor does anybody else in this group), and I've recently switched from putting all my sound into a space at our gigs using only my stage rig to turning my amp down a little bit and running some of my sound through our PA. Doing this reduces our stage volume, but overall the band still needs more work with that.

I completely respect our pals here who put compression to very good use. There's a lot of comp talk around here and I think that this can give the impression that comp's are among the basics that every bass cat ought to have on hand. I even have a rather nice Aguilar TLC that I experiment with here and there, but I'll admit that I don't use it for gigs. I've only noodled with it off and on, but I haven't run across a setup where I found a significant "want" for it in my signal chain. I'll also admit that I don't do much of any slapping at our gigs, but I'd certainly be wanting to use this TLC at least here and there if I did.

Comps don't all function exactly the same in terms of the specific frequencies that they more readily attenuate when they engage and some can also color our sound. I didn't really know about this when I was experimenting with one or another cheap 'n crummy comp in the past, but then when I tried the Aguilar, I had a true a-HA!! moment. I realized how nice it was to have a much more "transparent" comp that left my tone alone.

My suspicion is that I might get better results using my comp with only certain instruments. I have a custom passive P/J that has an inherently aggressive and mid-forward tone without a big beefy fundamental that I usually like to hear. When I run that bass through my comp, I can thicken up the tone a little bit because those heavy mids are the frequencies that are more readily trimmed through the TLC. With the frequencies a bit more leveled out (TLC active), I hear a little more of the thicker low end when it isn't getting obscured by the honk of those mids. Subtle but rather nice for that specific bass. My other two (passive Jazz and an active bass with two humbuckers) don't need any similar "thickening".

Although I don't have any pressing need or want for a comp in my signal chain for the shows I do now, the gizmo that has become relatively essential for me has been a High Pass Filter (HPF). When I play in a venue where low frequencies can become very unruly as soon as I turn up a little bit, an HPF can be magical in terms of getting that boomy muddiness under control with very little fuss.

So at least for me, it's HPF for live material and I'll keep my comp handy in case somebody wants me to do some recording where I'd bet it could easily be useful for me. Compared with some effects like fuzz, envelope filters, chorus, etc. that are VERY out there with the sounds they do, compressors seem to have their own individual subtleties. I've needed to go the buy-it-to-try-it route to get to know a couple of them and after a lot of years of tweaking here and there, my classroom is still open. In case you're worried that you may need one at this point, I'd say you probably don't. But if you want to grab one and take some time getting to know it, that's great.

The nicer the studio, the less likely I am to use my own compressor.

If they have really nice outboard gear, I will definitely defer to the engineer to apply compression to the bass track.

A pedal compressor like the TLC is actually for live use. I tried it and had to return it. But it was close, oh so close, like the Onvilabs FX Smoothie. It really helped my passive basses a lot, but with my active basses, on better rigs, I could not find a setting that worked: changed the sound enough to add sweetness without then interfering with my dynamics in certain musical situations.

 

[stubbsonic]

With this compressor and this specific compression technique you will not lose your dynamics

… as much.

 

[odarellmc]

Please forgive my ignorance but I am just learning bass after thirty years of playing guitar. I use one pedal for guitar. A Boss Blues Driver straight into my 65 Twin Reverb reissue. Most of the time I only use it to get a small amount of overdrive. So what does a compressor do, besides the obvious of compressing the sound I guess. What is it used for and do I need one eventually. I say eventually because I don’t even have a bass amp yet. I am playing through Amplitube with headphones. There are compressor pedal sims on there but I don’t know how to use them or why. I have played around with it but prefer the sound of just the bass going into the amp over using the pedal. I do use them sometimes when I’m using the presets. There are 25 bass amp/pedal presets on there that I like playing around with but so far the best sound I have found is the bass going directly into an Ampeg tube amp sim.

Given you already have control over your dynamics when playing guitar you may not need a compressor. Especially if you question why would you need one. I only use a compressor to level out the other pedals in the chain. Tone including compression is in your fingers..

 

[odarellmc]

No I kind of take that back. while that's my general of a compressor, I specifically use my 1st gen Smoothie because the way I can make the notes "pop" and I use it specifically for that sound. My other compressors are more transparent, so I use it as an effect and utility. you may be that type of player.

 

[Fuzzbass]

It is true a compressor can change the envelope of your playing, adding sustain, or exaggerating the attack. However, it can't make you "perceive more dynamics". No matter what words you string together, compression is compression.

Yes it can! A major reason why compression is used on every studio recording is so listeners will "perceive more dynamics", the key being "perceive".

Excerpt from the ovnilab FAQ:

"when people say they don't like compression because they are "a dynamic player", they fail to realize that what makes their dynamics worth listening to is the tone and feel, not the amplitude. A sound that is too quiet will not be heard well, and a sound that is too loud will be unpleasant to hear, and neither of them will make your band sound good. Instead the ideal is for a listener to be able to hear everything you have to say, from the softest whisper to the angriest SMASH, and for them to enjoy hearing it, and for the whole spectrum to suit the mix with the rest of your band. You want to have every nuance of your playing dynamics occupy a less extreme range of amplitude. That is what compression is for: not killing your dynamics, but helping the audience hear your dynamics even better!"

 

[stubbsonic]

Yes it can! A major reason why compression is used on every studio recording is so listeners will "perceive more dynamics", the key being "perceive".

There are several reasons why compression is used in every studio, which have NOTHING to do with increasing dynamics (perceived or otherwise). Listeners may perceive something differently, but it won't be more dynamics.

Excerpt from the ovnilab FAQ:

"when people say they don't like compression because they are "a dynamic player", they fail to realize that what makes their dynamics worth listening to is the tone and feel, not the amplitude.

Compression alters the relationship between timbre & amplitude. Dynamics = amplitude

A sound that is too quiet will not be heard well, and a sound that is too loud will be unpleasant to hear, and neither of them will make your band sound good.

These are 100% addressed by your playing. I.e., play loud enough to be heard well, and don't play too loud to become unpleasant. Playing with dynamics make your band sound good. Using a compressor, and hence sacrificing some dynamic-range can, in some situations, do something worthy of the sacrifice; but we don't need to pretend our dynamics are preserved or protected, they are offered up in service of other priorities.

Instead the ideal is for a listener to be able to hear everything you have to say, from the softest whisper to the angriest SMASH, and for them to enjoy hearing it, and for the whole spectrum to suit the mix with the rest of your band. You want to have every nuance of your playing dynamics occupy a less extreme range of amplitude. That is what compression is for: not killing your dynamics, but helping the audience hear your dynamics even better!"

Some bands aren't very dynamic. They focus on other qualities.

The bands I've played in all have wide (actual) dynamic changes-- so I can play very softly and balance with the band, and when the band has accents or a loud section-- I can balance with that as well. A compressor, even with a slow attack time, might cause soft notes to bloom too loud (they already bloom properly because of how I play), and loud notes will get sucked down when I don't want or need that. Lose lose.