Cover Band annoyance

[baceface]

Its all about money people, cmon.
I d use b tracks becoz they dont get sick, they dont give u a hard time, u dont have to pay them and they never play a wrong note.
BUT, i also dont want to see a band miming or having 90 % of their performance being b tracks.
But ea to their own, if u dont like backing tracks, dont go to those gigs....?
It aint rocket science.

I can see where a few could be helpful for a 4 hour gig... they played from 7-11pm. Bring money into the equation is a good point too. I was actually talking to the girl that was one of the organizers for this clubs entertainment events and she tild me they were getting paid tree-fiddy for the night.

Doing the math in my head didnt add up. Full gear plus a complete pa system, ipad etc... and a box truck they lugged to the show. They shouldnt be leaving the house for less than 700 but Id imagine they make better money elsewhere. Personally, I hate to see all that work go into it and by the time they plug in, they're playing along to a recording like robots. Had they showed one ounce of stage presence, I probably wouldn't have noticed the backing tracks or would've stayed but the whole experience was lame and I wasnt the only one that left.

 

[5StringBlues]

Could I get more Ipod in the monitor please?

 

[electracoyote]

BUT, i also dont want to see a band miming or having 90 % of their performance being b tracks.

Same here, especially if it's 4-5 players standing there. I'd be disappointed if it wasn't at least 90% live.

Now one or two musicians in a postage stamp-sized space trying to sound bigger than they are, hey, they're not trying to fool anybody. Everyone knows they're just using tech. Anyone who doesn't like it, take a hike. Those musicians probably anticipate and accept that, just like they anticipate that if they do a good job with the tech, a lot of people will stick around and party with them.

I know a married couple in my area who have been doing it for years, very successful in upscale restaurants and small rooms where most of us could never fit our full-size bands (The Hildees, Denver CO [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ). They're both excellent musicians who play and sing live as much as they can and their tracks sound amazing. Everyone knows they're using tracks and sequences, but they always have a full room at the end of the night. Very lucrative and rewarding for a lot of people. I'm sure a frowny-face musician stomps off sometimes; I doubt anyone notices or cares much.

 

[buldog5151bass]

There is a difference between a duo of acoustic guitar and vocalist who obviously are playing with backing tracks (because likely all they are getting is a hundred or so from the restaurant) and a full band. While it ain't my cup of tea, I understand when they have a drummer in the box - although even then I would prefer them playing live. But a full band should be live with no tracks. I don't care what "big band X on big stage X" does.

 

[Joedog]

Its all about money people, cmon.
But ea to their own, if u dont like backing tracks, dont go to those gigs.....

For some of us, it's not "ALL" about the money. And I don't go to "those gigs", or when I stumble across one, I leave, and if I get the chance, tell the owner why. Luckily, there are plenty of options here to see very good real live bands.

 

[dtsamples]

For some of us, it's not "ALL" about the money. And I don't go to "those gigs", or when I stumble across one, I leave, and if I get the chance, tell the owner why. Luckily, there are plenty of options here to see very good real live bands.

Well you'll win the "had most musical integrity award" then. In the mean time, I'll be up on stage playing the instrument that I love for people having a good time while I make some income to provide for my pregnant wife and 2 year old daughter. It's awesome you don't need the money, but don't condemn those of us who've had to turn our talent into a money-making venture. Also, since we are after all a cover band, it should go without saying that we didn't write the music that young people out dancing want to hear. It wasn't our choice to add horns, strings, 15 synth effects, and percussion loops to every 3 minute track. But those ARE the songs they want to hear, and since my bass guitar won't play anything but bass guitar, we decided to fill out that stuff with tracks. And since we DO need to make money, though we'd certainly RATHER have live musicians up there with us covering those parts, we have had to make the business decision that to be profitable, we simply cannot recruit more members at this time. So, next time you tell a bar owner that you're leaving because a band is using tracks, first remember that like it or not, there are musicians up there trying to provide for their families in market dominated by DJs. And if you want to change the scene so that tracks aren't used, then write some good tunes with your original band that don't need more than guitar, drums, bass, and 4-part vocals (since that's what we are without tracks) and we'll cover them.

 

[electracoyote]

I don't go to "those gigs", or when I stumble across one, I leave, and if I get the chance, tell the owner why.

Outstanding. You should follow up with a strongly-worded letter in the morning, or perhaps stage a protest in the parking lot. Pissing on other entertainers, real classy.

FYI, the owner probably looks at his receipts for the night and the vast majority of patrons who chose to stay and gives you the cursory, "Thanks for your input, have a good evening." In my area, musicians making disparaging remarks about other acts usually get a spot on the venue owner's black list.

 

[Altitude]

Well you'll win the "had most musical integrity award" then. In the mean time, I'll be up on stage playing the instrument that I love for people having a good time while I make some income to provide for my pregnant wife and 2 year old daughter. It's awesome you don't need the money, but don't condemn those of us who've had to turn our talent into a money-making venture. Also, since we are after all a cover band, it should go without saying that we didn't write the music that young people out dancing want to hear. It wasn't our choice to add horns, strings, 15 synth effects, and percussion loops to every 3 minute track. But those ARE the songs they want to hear, and since my bass guitar won't play anything but bass guitar, we decided to fill out that stuff with tracks. And since we DO need to make money, though we'd certainly RATHER have live musicians up there with us covering those parts, we have had to make the business decision that to be profitable, we simply cannot recruit more members at this time. So, next time you tell a bar owner that you're leaving because a band is using tracks, first remember that like it or not, there are musicians up there trying to provide for their families in market dominated by DJs. And if you want to change the scene so that tracks aren't used, then write some good tunes with your original band that don't need more than guitar, drums, bass, and 4-part vocals (since that's what we are without tracks) and we'll cover them.

It will be very easy for this to descend into personal attacks from here, but I hope that doesn't happen because this dichotomy of opinion is the most interesting part of the discussion.

 

[dtsamples]

Forgive me if as the one person who identifies themself in this thread as using tracks live I feel as though it has already turned into personal attacks.

 

[Ianhin]

Well you'll win the "had most musical integrity award" then. In the mean time, I'll be up on stage playing the instrument that I love for people having a good time while I make some income to provide for my pregnant wife and 2 year old daughter. It's awesome you don't need the money, but don't condemn those of us who've had to turn our talent into a money-making venture. Also, since we are after all a cover band, it should go without saying that we didn't write the music that young people out dancing want to hear. It wasn't our choice to add horns, strings, 15 synth effects, and percussion loops to every 3 minute track. But those ARE the songs they want to hear, and since my bass guitar won't play anything but bass guitar, we decided to fill out that stuff with tracks. And since we DO need to make money, though we'd certainly RATHER have live musicians up there with us covering those parts, we have had to make the business decision that to be profitable, we simply cannot recruit more members at this time. So, next time you tell a bar owner that you're leaving because a band is using tracks, first remember that like it or not, there are musicians up there trying to provide for their families in market dominated by DJs. And if you want to change the scene so that tracks aren't used, then write some good tunes with your original band that don't need more than guitar, drums, bass, and 4-part vocals (since that's what we are without tracks) and we'll cover them.

Well said!!!

 

[Ianhin]

Same here, especially if it's 4-5 players standing there. I'd be disappointed if it wasn't at least 90% live.

Now one or two musicians in a postage stamp-sized space trying to sound bigger than they are, hey, they're not trying to fool anybody. Everyone knows they're just using tech. Anyone who doesn't like it, take a hike. Those musicians probably anticipate and accept that, just like they anticipate that if they do a good job with the tech, a lot of people will stick around and party with them.

I know a married couple in my area who have been doing it for years, very successful in upscale restaurants and small rooms where most of us could never fit our full-size bands (The Hildees, Denver CO [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ). They're both excellent musicians who play and sing live as much as they can and their tracks sound amazing. Everyone knows they're using tracks and sequences, but they always have a full room at the end of the night. Very lucrative and rewarding for a lot of people. I'm sure a frowny-face musician stomps off sometimes; I doubt anyone notices or cares much.

Yup, u got it brother!

 

[Ianhin]

I really dont know what the big deal is about using backing tracks. Here in SA it s the norm. U want to sound good. If people like a song they like the song not some 3 piece trying to do "their" version of it?? That s musical sacriledge. Imagine how stupid some songs will sound if u didnt use backing tracks?
I wouldnt go back to that venue.
But a few things ive observed that r a def no no with cover bands using tracks:
U must have a live drummer, there s nothing more clinical sounding than a drum box Yugh!
U must have live lead guitar!
AND U must have a bassist!!!!!!!
The rest? I don't care if u ve got 1000 backing tracks with that lot! As long as the 3 of u can play and 1 or 2 can sing.
Imagine listening to a Deep Purple cover with no roaring Hammond B3??!!!

 

[Ianhin]

For some of us, it's not "ALL" about the money. And I don't go to "those gigs", or when I stumble across one, I leave, and if I get the chance, tell the owner why. Luckily, there are plenty of options here to see very good real live bands.

If u re struggling financially, what s wrong with doing something u love, like playing music, and making money at the same time? Or do u already have a Camaro and a Corvette in ur garage so u dont need the cash?

 

[76jazzbass]

In my home area of Southern NJ & Phila. areas, this has become a NEAR DEATH cause for "REAL" Live bands. An area which once thrived and was known for it's top notch Cover bands, has now become the home of what we refer to as " Karaoke bands" OR Lap Top Computer Bands". Made up of mostly a duo or trio, usually consisting of a female vocalist, guitarist and or a "Keyboard player" actually using the keyboard to control the lap top. These "bands???" all purchase the same downloaded tracks and "perform" along with the tracks, actually making themselves all exactly the same, other than personnel. The tracks are the complete recording of the song and all the "band???" does is FAKE along with the tracks. Of course they actually sing and "play" along with the tracks, however it is all just "adlib" and very little rehearsal is involved! One "particular group of these "bands" actually have 9 different "names" only shuffling a few different members within them! I have witnessed at least 10 of these "so called bands" and in my opinion it is a total disgrace to what real "LIVE" music is supposed to be. The MAJOR problem here, is that because there are only 2 or 3 members, they have managed to reduce the PRICING down to anywhere from $100.00 to $225.00 a night TOTAL!!! Rooms which easily would pay a 4 piece REAL" cover band $400.00 a night are now only willing to offer the minimum $$ and not allowing the "REAL BANDS" to be able to compete dollar wise. The owners seem to feel that the KAROKE/LAPTOP "bands" are saving them money. When in actuality they are slowly destroying an industry. An example is WILDWOOD, NJ which once had the BEST COVER bands from the entire Phila. region performing and drawing many. This past weekend had only 3 "real Live Bands" BUT had 5 KAROKE/LAPTOPs performing. It is no wonder why Wildwood, Nj, Is no longer a recognized destination for good entertainment and is pretty much DEAD! Please let me state that I am NOT talking about MIDI implementation here, ( My own band uses MIDI for our keyboard parts since the passing of our 40 year keyboardist (from lung cancer). Adding MIDI to a band is a serious challenge, a lot of work and expense if you chose to do it right and I admire any MUSICIANS that go in that direction when necessary. Perhaps this KAROKE/LAPTOP "BAND??" is the future of "live" music, but I seriously would like to see a new name given to it, because they do not perform or deserve to be labelled as a "BAND"! It's really a shame that people no longer can truly appreciate the hard work and commitment that "REAL BANDS" must deal with and to pay their dues to perform.

My band plays South Jersey and yes I agree, but there are still plenty of smaller venues/bars that have full cover bands. The problem with the better rooms is the 'control' by booking agents. I can see why a venue would use a booking agent for their ease, but don't see why they would let them basically call the shots...

 

[jive1]

I don't have anything against using tracks, but there's a number of reasons why I don't like to use them and they don't have anything to do with 'artistic integrity' or wanting things to be 'all natural'. The biggest reason why I don't like to use them is because they take away flexibility from a band.

- You can't play a song with any other tempo or feel than what's on the track. If you want to slightly tweak the tempo or feel of a song to fit the crowd, the track won't let you do that.

- You can't play any other arrangement than what's on the track. Sometimes you have a song that's filling the dance floor, and you may want to extend the song a little past what you intended. You may have the guitar player smokin hot that night with the crowd eating out of his hand, and you might want to extend a solo. If you're playing along to a track, you're pretty much stuck with the programmed arrangement and those flexible moments aren't possible.

- You have little room for error. Sometimes someone is having an off night, and it's good to have other players able to cover each other's mistakes. Sometimes you have technical difficulties, and the more places to break down, the more likely it's going to happen. And if you mess up while playing along to a track, it's only a matter of time till you trainwreck unless you turn off the track completely.

- It's difficult to do medleys and mashups, unless you have someone in the band that's talented at putting tracks together. And even then, it can be difficult to implement, especially if there is a tempo or feel change in the medley. It would be difficult to impossible to do spur of the moment jams and mashups if you have a track you are playing along to.

- It takes up 2 channels in the mixer. In the few times I have used them, we used tracks where the left was the main output, and right was the click. We had to put the click into one channel and have it go only to the monitors and the track into another channel to come out the mains and monitor.

 

[electracoyote]

^ Good point Jive, if you're in a band that desires or requires that kind of flexibility, tracks are probably too constraining.

 

[MattyH]

Mingus felt the same way about your electric bass.

Mingus is one of the most influential double bass jazz players ever. I don't know of any influential cover bands that rely on tracks because they can't cover all the parts. My band CAN cover everything. We won't be caught dead using tracks, because we will never have the need for them. Like Charles Mingus never needed an electric bass.

 

[Altitude]

I don't know of any influential cover bands that rely on tracks because they can't cover all the parts. My band CAN cover everything. We won't be caught dead using tracks, because we will never have the need for them.

Very impressive.

 

[MattZilla]

Figure my opinion don't mean s h i t, so I'll weigh in.

Backing tracks are lame as hell, but I respect anyone who can make sparse ones happen seamlessly in time. It's still lame though.

Playing songs note for note is lame. That's what jukeboxes are for.

I used to despise the idea of cover bands in general, then I heard a local newgrass band that does some traditional tunes, but mostly kickass tweedy barnburning versions of pop and classic rock songs that I usually hate to hear in their known form. Boots n shorts, if you're up in cny. Then while working within earshot of a dorky place that only hosts cover bands, I get to hear one or two every few months that has their own flavor and heavily filters some common and some really obscure covers in, often changing tempo and key, moving the melody to other instruments, and other general awesomeness. They make me want to start my own punkfunk coverband.

 

[Session1969]

There are now regional "genre" type groups (80's, 90's, Hair Band, etc.) that use the same backing tracks, same outfits, even the same name that are booked out of Las Vegas. It usually consists of guitar, bass, drums and a lead vocalist. The agency sets up a group in a particular region with a website, facebook page, setlist, look, press kit, etc. and of course backing tracks. However, the backing tracks for the west coast 80's band are the exact same backing tracks as the Midwest or east coast regional 80's band. They are most likely recorded in LA by good session players and are distributed to the various regional acts. In most cases the actual musicians on stage are nowhere near the level of players that recorded the backing tracks and sometime don't even play their own instrument on certain songs. They have become quite popular and are taking business away from legitimate groups. I know that the private sector just wants to be entertained and could give a hoot 99% of the time, but it seems a bit dishonest to be pushing these groups as being "live" when they are not much more than "canned corporate bands". I contacted the agency pretending to be a potential client and was told that the groups play everything the you hear on the website live and are 100% "for real". So tell me how a 3 piece band with guitar, bass and drums does "Take On Me" by AHA that is almost totally awash with synths and sounds just like the record?

It's been going on for at least 20 years (that I know of). Would the same few guys get the gig without the tracks ? No. A flippin' D.J would. Why ? Because of the consistency and quality of sound. If more cover bands elevated their standards as to what being professional actually is , maybe things would be different. You know what I believe to be a true observation ? So many groups are concerned with how much each member makes (starting out) that they forego the tens of hours a week that use to go into practicing as a professional group. So many groups sacrifice the fullness in sound (because of the pittance they would start out making by having the appropriate amount of members) as well as consistency because most practice as weekend warriors and not professionals. What was considered a weekend warrior , back in the day , is now the norm for local "pro" acts. Very many have an employee mentality rather than a business owner mentality in that they only look at the immediate gain rather than what their long term goal should be. Provide an amazing product first , not a product that is in proportion to what their immediate gain is. Let's just be real. I've seen a huge decline in the work ethic that use to be a given. Just look at the ads you see that bands (who put themselves out as dedicated and professional) post looking for new members. 99% say at the end "must be able to practice once or twice a week. It's sad.