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Cover bands and legal issues

open_space

open_space

Aug 7, 2006
219
7
Minsk, Belarus
www.osband.com
#1
I have a question to all those who play in cover band or just play covers...

Last week my band was playing a show and we usually do 1-2 covers. Let's say we will do two sets (40 minutes each) and each set will have a cover.

Anyway, after the show one person comes up to us and says: good show but how come you are playing other people's songs? We looked at her like: "what...?” And then she said: "Well, it's not right to play songs written by other people and it's also illegal!” :scowl:

Now, let's leave the "it's not right to play songs written by other people" argument and focus on the legal stuff. Is it actually legal to play covers? I am asking because I have never heard about someone being prosecuted for playing covers but I do now that someone owns rights to this particular song.

Oh, I am not from the US. I am posting this question here because I know that a lot of people on this forum play in cover bands and make a living this way. So I want to know whether it's legal or not.;)

Thanks
 
#3
Been covered many times.

If a venue is playing other peoples music - recorded or live they need a license. They pay a royalty which goes to the songwriters via PRS (in the UK). If the venue has a license then it's legal. If they don't have a license it's illegal.

It's down to the venue - not the bands problem. Venues DO get prosecuted.

Ian
 
#4
From a previous post (not by me!) on this topic:

"In general, in order to cover a song, you need a license from the Harry Fox Agency -- that's a company the record companies set up to sell the compulsory licenses for covers (and other things).

However, the usual situation is not for the bands to get licenses to cover songs themselves -- generally the bar or club themselves will pay a blanket licensing fee so that any band that plays in the club is automatically covered (they also need the license for their jukebox, etc.). You shouldn't need to acquire a license for the covers unless a) you are planning to record a cover and then sell the CD, or b) you are playing covers at parties, or other venues that would not typically be expected to have a blanket licensing scheme.

So, if you are concerned about licensing, you could check with the venues that you are planning to play in, and check that they have the proper blanket licenses in place. Most likely they do -- the record company associations are relatively vigilant in their mission to extract licensing fees. However, from a practical standpoint, to you, the band, it probably doesn't matter all that much whether the venue has the license or not. The record companies are unlikely to come after a cover band (unless you are a VERY successful cover band) for copyright infringement when they can go after the likely more lucrative target of the venue for contributory and vicarious copyright infringement.

If you want to be totally sure, check with the venues. If you are really paranoid, you could contact the Harry Fox Agency online and see if it is worthwhile to negotiate your own blanket licensing scheme to protect your band wherever you are. But, that said, the venues should cover you."
 
#5
Wow, thanks for the replies. I've never heard about licences for venues around here. I do know that they have to pay when broadcasting local bands but when they are playing foreign (read american or british) music, I don't think they pay anybody.

What about playing covers at big venues such as arenas or stadiums? I doubt that they have licences.
 
#6
open_space said:
What about playing covers at big venues such as arenas or stadiums? I doubt that they have licences.
Click to expand...

You can bet that a big venue DOES have a license - they need it just to play background music in the venue's bar and/or foyer. If it's a big enough venue/high profile event that gets on the radar of the licensing authority then rather than getting a blanket license they get a more complex form to fill in. Above certain capacity they have to record what happens more closly, and get billed accordingly.

Simlarly when I was involved with a tiny local radio station they hard a blanket license. Bigger stations have to record every song they play, and specifically pay for each play.

Ian
 
#7
IanStephenson said:
Been covered many times.

If a venue is playing other peoples music - recorded or live they need a license. They pay a royalty which goes to the songwriters via PRS (in the UK). If the venue has a license then it's legal. If they don't have a license it's illegal.

It's down to the venue - not the bands problem. Venues DO get prosecuted.

Ian
Click to expand...

but so rarely as to not even be considered. "copyright infringement" against bars or cover bands? I think you have a better chance of winning Power Ball than getting sued this way.

Technically the guy was correct. but in reality? It's like saying that if you go 31 in a 30 mph zone, you're speeding. But how often would you get pulled over for it?

Ask the guy if he has ever paid HIS royalties every time he sings Happy Birthday or Christmas carols in public? Those all have copyrights too.
 
#8
QORC said:
Technically the guy was correct. but in reality? It's like saying that if you go 31 in a 30 mph zone, you're speeding. But how often would you get pulled over for it?

Ask the guy if he has ever paid HIS royalties every time he sings Happy Birthday or Christmas carols in public? Those all have copyrights too.
Click to expand...

When you think about it that way though man, the law is the law, you can legally still be held liable for going 1mph over the speed limit, it would just constitute an ******* cop.
 
#10
QORC said:
Ask the guy if he has ever paid HIS royalties every time he sings Happy Birthday or Christmas carols in public? Those all have copyrights too.
Click to expand...

Actually, they don't. Those fall under the category of "standards" along with most old blues and folk songs, that were never copyrighted in the first place.

I looked into this once with my band (because of the mass amounts of blues we play), and we were told no license was necessary for the blues standards we cover. They cannot be attributed to one person, and if they can the song is in pre-copyright days, or the copyright has expired. The same holds true for traditional and folk tunes.
 
#11
Happy Birthday is still subject to copyright protection: http://www.warnerchappell.com/wcm_2...gview_2.jsp?esongId=126621000&view=fulllyrics

Its copyright is scheduled to expire in the year 2030.

With respect to the licensing information provided earlier in the thread, performance licenses are typically issued by ASCAP or BMI. The Harry Fox Agency administers mechanical licenses, which are necessary for recording, not public performance.
 
#12
I stand corrected on Happy Birthday. I had no idea that one could be pinned down. I can't believe that someone keeps renewing the license on that song. Come on, there's a lot of platinum selling bands that don't renew their copyrights after the first go-round. Happy Birthday?!
 
#13
QORC said:
but so rarely as to not even be considered. "copyright infringement" against bars or cover bands? I think you have a better chance of winning Power Ball than getting sued this way.

Technically the guy was correct. but in reality? It's like saying that if you go 31 in a 30 mph zone, you're speeding. But how often would you get pulled over for it?
Click to expand...

I think the reason there are few prosecutions is for the exact opposite reason - It's so easy for the license authorities to get a list of venues from the local council and cross reference against their own lists that a venue is SURE to get caught. Proving it would be trivial (a copy of the venues flyer, and a few photographs/sound recordings), so if it did go to court it would be a slam dunk.

The consequences of a prosecution would likely be loss of the venues alcohol license! (magestrates grant liquor licenses and don't like illegal stuff even if its trivial). At last round here, venues ALL have licenses.

If you sing Happy Birthday in a bar, the bar probably DOES have a license to cover it.

Ian
 
#15
open_space said:
Anyway, after the show one person comes up to us and says: good show but how come you are playing other people's songs? We looked at her like: "what...?” And then she said: "Well, it's not right to play songs written by other people and it's also illegal!” :scowl:
Click to expand...

Dude, I think you've been focusing at the trees too much you've completely missed the forest: She's trying to pick-you up, you big stud! :cool:
 
#16
QORC said:
but so rarely as to not even be considered. "copyright infringement" against bars or cover bands? I think you have a better chance of winning Power Ball than getting sued this way.

Technically the guy was correct. but in reality? It's like saying that if you go 31 in a 30 mph zone, you're speeding. But how often would you get pulled over for it?

Ask the guy if he has ever paid HIS royalties every time he sings Happy Birthday or Christmas carols in public? Those all have copyrights too.
Click to expand...

CapnSev said:
Actually, they don't. Those fall under the category of "standards" along with most old blues and folk songs, that were never copyrighted in the first place.

I looked into this once with my band (because of the mass amounts of blues we play), and we were told no license was necessary for the blues standards we cover. They cannot be attributed to one person, and if they can the song is in pre-copyright days, or the copyright has expired. The same holds true for traditional and folk tunes.
Click to expand...
SO not true. Happy Birthday STILL has a copyright on it. AND while many christmas carols HAVE expired copyrights, many famous ones maintain them. Here are some well known christmas songs that STILL have copyrights to them (with author and publisher);

1. All I Want for Christmas is my Two Front Teeth D. Gardner WARNER/CHAPPELL
2. Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas Martin/Blane J. ALBERT & SON
3. Here Comes Santa Claus Autry/Haldeman EMI
4. I'll Be Home for Christmas Gannon/Kent WARNER/CHAPPELL
5. Do You Hear What I Hear Regney/Shayne CAMPBELL CONNELLY
6. I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus Connor CAMPBELL CONNELLY
7. It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas Willson EMI
8. It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year Pola/Wyle EMI
9. Jingle-Bell Rock Beal/Boothe ESSEX
10. Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow Cahn/Styne J. ALBERT & SON
11. Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer Marks WARNER/CHAPPELL
12. Santa Claus is Coming to Town Coots/Gillespie EMI
13. White Christmas Berlin EMI
14. Silver Bells Evans/Livingston FAMOUS

You can check the industry websites for them.

THE RULES:

"Each musical work is made up of different copyright elements that are separately protected. These may include copyright in the:

* music - protection lasts until seventy years after the year in which the composer died
* lyrics - protection lasts until seventy years after the year in which the lyricist died
* arrangement - if applicable, protection lasts until seventy years after the year in which the arranger died
* published edition - the publishers' investment in the typesetting of the piece, ie. the graphic layout of the music on the page; protection lasts for twenty five years from the date of publication

If all of these have expired, the piece is said to be in the "public domain" (PD) and may be copied without permission. A "traditional" (TRAD) work does not have copyright protection as it is usually very old and the creator is unknown. No permission needs to be obtained to transcribe or retype a traditional work.

If any element is still within the time period for copyright protection, you must obtain permission from the copyright owner (usually a publisher that administers the rights on behalf of the composer/lyricist)."

So I think what I said was correct!

anyway, the point remains the same. "prosecution" of copyright infringement by bands or bars is so infrequent as to be meaningless.

Again, ask your buddy whether he has a license to sing those tunes and see what he says.
 
#18
Not illegal to play covers. Responsibility of venue to pay the royalties. Band has no liability.

I'm not a copyright lawyer, but this is what my copyright lawyer buddies tell me. I was worried when we first started playing covers in venues, but now I don't worry about it.
 
#19
CapnSev said:
^ Apparently Happy Birthday is a big exception (I had no idea it was such a big thing for WB, just goes to show you what greedy chumps they are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You), but according to ASCAP, 90% of the "standards" that we play don't require a license, so they other stuff I said still holds true.

(You are 100% correct on the prosecution of copyright infringement)
Click to expand...

look above. It's NOT an exception. More than half of your favorite christmas tunes are copyrighted.
 

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