Crazy theory idea brought on by study overload. Please help

[CaribooBass]

I am not sure how to ask this question but I will do my best.

Can you play a chord progression the first time through with an ascending bass line, then on the second time through use a descending bass line?

If you do this would you have to use different inversions of the chords?
How much would the bass line changes alter the songs progression?

Maybe the verses have the same bass line but just change the chorus?

Has any one here done this before? If so what did you do to make it work?
How did it turn out?

Do you know any examples of songs that do this?

I am studying for theory exams and this is my brain on over load

Thanks

Clayton

 

[mambo4]

Can you play a chord progression the first time through with an ascending bass line, then on the second time through use a descending bass line?

Yes, it's a part of voice leading

If you do this would you have to use different inversions of the chords?

Yes

How much would the bass line changes alter the songs progression?

Depends on the song. Replacing root notes with inversions needs to be done with ears, taste and buy-in from the band. In some situations others may be relying on hearing that authoritative root note. Many styles rely on it for their characteristic sound. So experiment and have fun but make sure to assess the result against the needs of the music.

Has any one here done this before? If so what did you do to make it work? How did it turn out?

Well, there's always Bach, but I don't think he's on TB.

When I need to work on voice leading I usually spell out the chord progression on a grid and connect the dots:

If my notation reading were better I would just work it out on the staff.
There are multiple ways to connect them
Using 4 note chords (Fmaj7-C7-Bbmaj7-Dmin7) gives you even smoother options.
How do you know what option is best? use your ears, of course.

This sort of thing (with some added 'rules') is typically part of any first year theory course : Baroque 4 part harmony voice leading

 

[Slade N]

You can also just play the progression from a lower register and play the sequence ascending, then play the progression from a higher register playing the sequence descending without inverting the chords

 

[Snarf]

I am not sure how to ask this question but I will do my best.

Can you play a chord progression the first time through with an ascending bass line, then on the second time through use a descending bass line?

I mean, generally yes? This is a vague question. Are you connecting chords scalewise? What's the harmonic rhythm? What style of music? Are you talking about a bass line like we usually talk about on this forum, or you mean the low voice of a chord voicing?

If you do this would you have to use different inversions of the chords?

Yeah, probably. Again though, we talking about bass line or low voice in a chord voicing?

How much would the bass line changes alter the songs progression?

It could change it a lot, or not at all. Again, what are the chords? What kind of rhythm, what tempo?

Maybe the verses have the same bass line but just change the chorus?

This is common.

Has any one here done this before? If so what did you do to make it work?

Yes. Depends.

How did it turn out?

f*cking awesome

Do you know any examples of songs that do this?

That's asking a lot.

I am studying for theory exams and this is my brain on over load

I'M NOT HELPING LOL

 

[Whousedtoplay]

As an example, let's say you are an arranger, plus a bass player.

Ariana Grande came to you with her new song, "yes, and?"
"I have just a melody. It's a cappella. Can you arrange it?"

And you say, "OK, I can try."

Baroque 4 part harmony voice leading

That 4-part voicing harmony was the first thing I needed to (almost) "discard" when I've started playing the bass guitar (Pop, Rock, etc...) many years ago.
It's good to know that 4-voice harmony, but be careful with its application for the bass guitar in Pop, Rock music.

relying on hearing that authoritative root note. Many styles rely on it for their characteristic sound.

YES.

What kind of rhythm, what tempo?

For some unknown to me reasons, the TB members don't discuss the elements, "ingredients" of this/that rhythm.
Always, "what other note/s could I play?"

 

[mambo4]

For some unknown to me reasons, the TB members don't discuss the elements, "ingredients" of this/that rhythm.
Always, "what other note/s could I play?"

partly because rhythm notation is harder to type than " A B C "

also the mechanics of getting the correct pitch are the first thing beginning musicians learn (drummers excepted)
also the bulk of music theory information available is about pitch and harmony
Victor Wooten does a good job at putting pitch in its proper place in the elements of 'groove'

 

[Whousedtoplay]

also the mechanics of getting the correct pitch are the first thing beginning musicians learn (drummers excepted)
also the bulk of music theory information available is about pitch and harmony

If I were a "teacher," I would insist on playing just the root notes of the rhythmic pattern (of any songs) for the beginner bass players specializing in Pop, Rock, R&B music.

A rhythmic pattern with all the important aspects of dynamics, articulation played just on the root note.
Later start adding, maybe, the 5th, etc...

(Jazzists should visit the Double Bass Forum.)

 

[SteveCS]

...
For some unknown to me reasons, the TB members don't discuss the elements, "ingredients" of this/that rhythm.
Always, "what other note/s could I play?"
...

Some of us try, but it invariably comes back around to notes and how many more can be squeezed in whilst avoiding root notes almost as a point of policy. The problem with avoiding too many root notes is that the others offer less as points of resolution for the harmony as an entity (of which we are but a small part) and as a stable 'foil' or 'counter' for the melody. Lines that avoid too many for too long tend to become permanently unstable or a distraction, which is rarely a long-term priority in the job description, IMHO. YMMV.

 

[mambo4]

Roots + rhythm ( including rests, duration, staccato/legato etc) is probably 75% of the pie in my view
As a beginner I was asking "what other notes can I play?"
before I even thought to ask "What other way can I play this note?"

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Can you play a chord progression the first time through with an ascending bass line, then on the second time through use a descending bass line?

I know it's about your exams, which has (almost) nothing to do with the real music production, but...

I really like Citizen Cope,and while listening to his "slowly flowing" song, The River, some "strange" idea occurred to me.

P.S.Only Citizen Cope can take very simple chords and write a song that does sound dull.

The song has two clearly pronounced sections: A and B.
Section A:
(The same chord progression repeats itself for almost 2 minutes.)

Emin(add9) - Cmaj7 - G - D.

My "strange" idea says,
"Hey, that constantly repeating chord progression in section A must have a (kind of) half note descending and/or ascending bass-line.

The original bass-line is very (too) subdued in section A.

Section B:

(A very interesting (unusual) approach to the bass-line in this B section!
The bass-line is an example of lyrical counterpoint.)

Cmaj7 - Cmaj7 - Cmin7/Bb - Cmin7/Bb - G - G - G - G7

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Section A:
(The same chord progression repeats itself for almost 2 minutes.)

Emin(add9) - Cmaj7 - G - D.

(Just to keep this thread alive.)

Let's try the following half-note (descending/ascending) bass-line.
(Descending)

Emin/E - Emin/D
Cmaj7/C - Cmaj7/B
G/A - G/G
D/F# - D/Fnatural
and back to E.

1.) What do you think about the G chord with the bass note of A on Beat 1?
The walking (jazz) bass tutorials say, "It's OK if you play the root note on Beat 3."

2.) What do you think about the last chord of D/F natural?
The walking (jazz) bass tutorials say, "We have an example of the tritone substitution."
Is it OK to use it in our Citizen Cope example?

Now, it's an ascending bass-line.

Emin/E - Emin/F#

Cmaj7/G - Cmaj7/A

G/B - G/C

D/D - D/D#

and back to E.

With the Cmaj7 chord, the bass does not play the root note.
With the G chord, the bass plays C (?)

What about D# in the last D chord?

 

[CaribooBass]

Thanks for your answers every one and please add anything any time you want. I asked this question when my studies showed it is possible. I never even thought of it before, but is is an interesting idea. I always play for the song only and I would not try this in a live or rehearsal situation.

So my idea is to write my own composition and try this idea out.
Maybe a bit lofty at this point but I like the challenge.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I never even thought of it before, but is is an interesting idea.

In the Tablature & Notation forum, Chris has posted a new bass transcription from
Margie Joseph - Let's stay together.

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-transcriptions.1167875/page-59#post-28276013

The chord progression indicates some possible choices of the ascending/descending bass line movements.

Verse:

Bb | Bb | Dmin/G-bass | Dmin/G-bass |
Eb | Eb | Ebmin | Ebmin |
Dmin7/Cmin7| Bbmaj7/Amin| Gmin9 | Gmin9 |
Dmin7/Cmin7| Bbmaj7/Amin| Gmin9 | Gmin9 |

(Maybe - a "revised" version)
Bb | Bb/A | Dmin/G-bass | Dmin/F-bass |, etc...

(Maybe?)

Dmin7/Cmin7/Eb-bass| Bbmaj7/F-bass/Amin/F#-bass|
Gmin9/Gmin9/A-bass | Gmin9/Bb-bass / Gmin9/C-bass|
Dmin7....

P.S. Just thinking out loud.

With all that available stem separating software, I think from now on, all the advertising Youtube bass players should post their renditions of the song with "everything but the bass-line" instead of playing over the original bass-line.
By using Moises for Free (Four songs a month), one could separate any song into four stems:
Vocal, Drums, Bass, Other.
With the help of Audacity, mix the Drums, Other, and Vocal stems (no bass) together,
and practice by playing your bass-line.
You could play (almost) the same bass line or create (and record) the new one.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Here is the "bass-free" original recording of "Let's Stay Together."

And now, explore your bass world!

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...1/?temp_hash=0e42e19f3ca1011f0902b11d23fa3f4b