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Double Bass Critique my recordings please
- Thread starter Illfavor
- Start date
Kudos to you for having the guts and humility to "put it out there." When I was in school, we bassists used to play for each other informally for critiques, but we were playing for a handful of familiar bassists, not for the whole world!
I would say that as a fellow traveler, your left arm position may need some small adjustments that could yield large results. If you could bring your elbow around more to the front of the bass and raise the left elbow a bit, you would bring more arm weight to bear on the fingerboard and put your hand in a better position to play in tune. Holding it down and back the way you are looks like it may be reducing your mobility and challenging your tone and intonation.
On the left arm, perhaps visualizing the image of singing through your arm/hand into the fingerboard could also help the intonation glitches. You also might consider practicing more "macro moves", single finger interval shifts (1/2 step/whole step, m and M 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, through the "transition area" into TP.
The lifelong challenge for me is to make sure that as I shift, my hand position remains constant, to keep intonation intact. Practicing hand shifts as double stops on the G and D (5ths and thirds) helps me keep hand positions good and builds strength. I always need to remember to keep my left elbow up. Rotating the bass a bit toward the left arm can help "open up" access to TP a bit more.
I am a French player so can't comment on your right arm much, except to say that your sound seems consistent and appropriately independent of your left arm. Bravo to that!
Couldn't see the bow/string interface, so don't know how close/far you were from the bridge. Can't comment on that.
Your straightforwardness and humility are awesome. Bless you and your workmanlike approach! Thank you so much for sharing it with us. You have provided my inspiration for the day.
I would say that as a fellow traveler, your left arm position may need some small adjustments that could yield large results. If you could bring your elbow around more to the front of the bass and raise the left elbow a bit, you would bring more arm weight to bear on the fingerboard and put your hand in a better position to play in tune. Holding it down and back the way you are looks like it may be reducing your mobility and challenging your tone and intonation.
On the left arm, perhaps visualizing the image of singing through your arm/hand into the fingerboard could also help the intonation glitches. You also might consider practicing more "macro moves", single finger interval shifts (1/2 step/whole step, m and M 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, through the "transition area" into TP.
The lifelong challenge for me is to make sure that as I shift, my hand position remains constant, to keep intonation intact. Practicing hand shifts as double stops on the G and D (5ths and thirds) helps me keep hand positions good and builds strength. I always need to remember to keep my left elbow up. Rotating the bass a bit toward the left arm can help "open up" access to TP a bit more.
I am a French player so can't comment on your right arm much, except to say that your sound seems consistent and appropriately independent of your left arm. Bravo to that!
Couldn't see the bow/string interface, so don't know how close/far you were from the bridge. Can't comment on that.
Your straightforwardness and humility are awesome. Bless you and your workmanlike approach! Thank you so much for sharing it with us. You have provided my inspiration for the day.
First, let me be honest -- I'm not a double bassist, I'm a fan-boy from the electric side of this site. I've played the piano all my life, however, and I am on the verge of getting my first double bass.
I think you're amazing, to be honest. Because I know nothing about proper db technique, I minimized the window, so I could just be all "ears." I detected no sour notes, no clumsy articulation -- indeed, it seemed to me that you are more than capable of "singing" on your instrument, which is the aim of a good musician. I think you are well on your way to becoming a great double-bassist.
I have bookmarked your blog, and I hope to see more excerpts from you in the future. Do you know any of the sonatas by Adolf Misek?
I think you're amazing, to be honest. Because I know nothing about proper db technique, I minimized the window, so I could just be all "ears." I detected no sour notes, no clumsy articulation -- indeed, it seemed to me that you are more than capable of "singing" on your instrument, which is the aim of a good musician. I think you are well on your way to becoming a great double-bassist.
I have bookmarked your blog, and I hope to see more excerpts from you in the future. Do you know any of the sonatas by Adolf Misek?
Wow! Thank you both for the comments! I will look into those technical things Eric. I really appreciate what you said!
I have just begun the first movement of his Sonata No. 2 in E minor, barbar, and I'm enjoying it immensly. I may post a clip of the Misek some time.
Thanks again
I have just begun the first movement of his Sonata No. 2 in E minor, barbar, and I'm enjoying it immensly. I may post a clip of the Misek some time.
Thanks again
I really liked the first part and don't have anything to suggest there that you wouldn't already be aware of.
IMHO
The second part seemed a bit uneven to me. My biggest comment would be the shifts down. I think the shifts should occur with much less noticable portamento. On the last shift I was expecting/wanting to hear a soft landing, but the shift was a little harsh and put a little "hiccup" in the phrasing.
IMHO
The second part seemed a bit uneven to me. My biggest comment would be the shifts down. I think the shifts should occur with much less noticable portamento. On the last shift I was expecting/wanting to hear a soft landing, but the shift was a little harsh and put a little "hiccup" in the phrasing.
I enjoyed your playing very much.
My opinion:
The opening to the first movement of Bottesini was good. But, I saw you put a accent on the B of the opening fraze, and shopped the note. (if you want to add that powerfull of a accent is perfectly fine, just not to my likeing)This happened both times this fraze came. You emphasize the note is very good, but to chop it all together seems harsh. It looked as if it were on purpose so I wont say to much. As a wise man once said, short notes aren't short notes, they are just long notes played short.
Still in the first movement I the second fraze, the high C-D-E-D-(Syncopated)C to the lower E. Right before the F# up to A. That syncopations was not evident at all. It seemed as if you just brushed passed it, almost mushing those notes together.
Second movement, I liked a lot more. There were a few nit picky slightly out of tune notes
But all in all was very good. Just add more dynamical contrast to each movement and it will be wonderfully. This was the biggest thing that stuck out to me.
I enjoyed listening to you, and please post more.
My opinion:
The opening to the first movement of Bottesini was good. But, I saw you put a accent on the B of the opening fraze, and shopped the note. (if you want to add that powerfull of a accent is perfectly fine, just not to my likeing)This happened both times this fraze came. You emphasize the note is very good, but to chop it all together seems harsh. It looked as if it were on purpose so I wont say to much. As a wise man once said, short notes aren't short notes, they are just long notes played short.
Still in the first movement I the second fraze, the high C-D-E-D-(Syncopated)C to the lower E. Right before the F# up to A. That syncopations was not evident at all. It seemed as if you just brushed passed it, almost mushing those notes together.
Second movement, I liked a lot more. There were a few nit picky slightly out of tune notes
But all in all was very good. Just add more dynamical contrast to each movement and it will be wonderfully. This was the biggest thing that stuck out to me.
I enjoyed listening to you, and please post more.
Again, thank you all for the comments.
bpclark: The portamento is my tertiary mode of expression in the movement, behind phrasing and dynamics (vibrato being a varying element of both). This final shift is into a large ritard (that ought to have been larger on the recording), but I'll consider shoring it up a bit. I've always gotten mixed feedback about that shift, so it'll probably be a "pleasing some of the people, some of the time" situation.
mcnaire: The accent on the B serves two purposes. First, the beginning is strong and short (almost to the point of being abrasive. Perhaps not apparent in the video is the Colle stroke at the beginning of almost every note, to make them "pop." So the accent on the B continues it. Secondly, to slur the B to the next note makes less sense with my strong(er than most) opening. So the accent and spacing, I think, gives the phrase more strength, and a bit of wit.
The high part where the syncopation is not evident is something I've been trying to think about. The synco was bad there because the dotted-eighth-sixteenth rhythm gets slurred there instead of accent+space like it does in the beginning. Now it sounded bad because I played it with poor rhythm, but are there any thoughts on the contrast between then and the beginning, the second part I see as beginning the transition to the lyrical B theme?
Thank you!
bpclark: The portamento is my tertiary mode of expression in the movement, behind phrasing and dynamics (vibrato being a varying element of both). This final shift is into a large ritard (that ought to have been larger on the recording), but I'll consider shoring it up a bit. I've always gotten mixed feedback about that shift, so it'll probably be a "pleasing some of the people, some of the time" situation.
mcnaire: The accent on the B serves two purposes. First, the beginning is strong and short (almost to the point of being abrasive. Perhaps not apparent in the video is the Colle stroke at the beginning of almost every note, to make them "pop." So the accent on the B continues it. Secondly, to slur the B to the next note makes less sense with my strong(er than most) opening. So the accent and spacing, I think, gives the phrase more strength, and a bit of wit.
The high part where the syncopation is not evident is something I've been trying to think about. The synco was bad there because the dotted-eighth-sixteenth rhythm gets slurred there instead of accent+space like it does in the beginning. Now it sounded bad because I played it with poor rhythm, but are there any thoughts on the contrast between then and the beginning, the second part I see as beginning the transition to the lyrical B theme?
Thank you!
Illfavor -
It is obvious there has been a lot of good work put into the piece, but the interpretation is a little awkward to me. I see why you are adding the accents and chopping the notes, but they are taking away the shape of the line. If you put an accent on the first note of a phrase and then chop the climax note of the phrase, the shape is gone, and I feel that throughout your interpretation.
Bottesini is opera music. He was a virtuoso double bass player, but he made his living in the opera house, and approach his music that way. You need to make believe you are in the 19th century singing the leading man part in a Verdi or Puccini opera.
As far as technical things go, I am a little troubled by your shoulders. I would recommend first lowering your bass maybe just a notch, and then sitting up straight. Make yourself as tall as can be and come over the bass, right now your shoulders are not level and you are putting your weight all the way to the right and than can damage your playing, and cause some physical pain later on. This can also be helped by not looking at your left. When you look at your left hand, you turn your body into an awkward position. There is no benefit to looking at our left hands, they are not fret or indication markers on our fingerboards, our only hope at playing in tune is our ears. Instead, look at your bow, make sure you are drawing a straight now at all times and that the bow placement is correct.
For your bow, I would encourage you to make the motion more fluid. There is a lot of wrist in the beginning of your down bow and then very little at all out at the top. This creates a weaker sound when playing in the upper third. I would try to use little to no wrist, and engage the string with your fingers, then pull with your arm and your upper body. We have big strings, and while your sound is big, it sounds a little raw, and I feel that by doing this you can definitely get more core and warmth to your sound.
It sounds great and keep up the good work.
-Nick
It is obvious there has been a lot of good work put into the piece, but the interpretation is a little awkward to me. I see why you are adding the accents and chopping the notes, but they are taking away the shape of the line. If you put an accent on the first note of a phrase and then chop the climax note of the phrase, the shape is gone, and I feel that throughout your interpretation.
Bottesini is opera music. He was a virtuoso double bass player, but he made his living in the opera house, and approach his music that way. You need to make believe you are in the 19th century singing the leading man part in a Verdi or Puccini opera.
As far as technical things go, I am a little troubled by your shoulders. I would recommend first lowering your bass maybe just a notch, and then sitting up straight. Make yourself as tall as can be and come over the bass, right now your shoulders are not level and you are putting your weight all the way to the right and than can damage your playing, and cause some physical pain later on. This can also be helped by not looking at your left. When you look at your left hand, you turn your body into an awkward position. There is no benefit to looking at our left hands, they are not fret or indication markers on our fingerboards, our only hope at playing in tune is our ears. Instead, look at your bow, make sure you are drawing a straight now at all times and that the bow placement is correct.
For your bow, I would encourage you to make the motion more fluid. There is a lot of wrist in the beginning of your down bow and then very little at all out at the top. This creates a weaker sound when playing in the upper third. I would try to use little to no wrist, and engage the string with your fingers, then pull with your arm and your upper body. We have big strings, and while your sound is big, it sounds a little raw, and I feel that by doing this you can definitely get more core and warmth to your sound.
It sounds great and keep up the good work.
-Nick
The second recording, much improvement. But, I think there are still places that can still be helped.
#1: Dynamics, I heard almost 0 dynamical difference in your playing. From top to bottom it was the same. I think you should probably make your Ps softer and your Fs way louder.
#2: Tone, use more bow, more hair, that is something that my teachers tell me all the time, something that does require more effort and will yield great results.
#3: Vibrato, spend time doing slow wide vibrations on every note that you intend to vibrate. Right not, it barely sounds like you are vibrating, or at least intending to. When you do something expressive, mean to do it, make sure it is done on purpose, even if it is (I know that doesn't make sense). Otherwise, it just sounds like a mistake, or you are to nervous.
#4: Accents and syncopation. Every time there is a syncopation, you accent it, and cut the note short. I don't know if you are trying the Edgar Meyer version, but even he holds the notes for their full value, or at least flowingly. Making the syncopation was better as far as not mumbling notes. When there were accents actually written, I honestly couldn't tell they were accents. Again, if you do something, mean to do it, almost make it too obvious(what you hear as the player, is almost never what it sounds like to the listener).
It is obvious you can play the notes, now the hard part begins.... Shaping them.
Keep posting and working. Good luck, and God bless.
#1: Dynamics, I heard almost 0 dynamical difference in your playing. From top to bottom it was the same. I think you should probably make your Ps softer and your Fs way louder.
#2: Tone, use more bow, more hair, that is something that my teachers tell me all the time, something that does require more effort and will yield great results.
#3: Vibrato, spend time doing slow wide vibrations on every note that you intend to vibrate. Right not, it barely sounds like you are vibrating, or at least intending to. When you do something expressive, mean to do it, make sure it is done on purpose, even if it is (I know that doesn't make sense). Otherwise, it just sounds like a mistake, or you are to nervous.
#4: Accents and syncopation. Every time there is a syncopation, you accent it, and cut the note short. I don't know if you are trying the Edgar Meyer version, but even he holds the notes for their full value, or at least flowingly. Making the syncopation was better as far as not mumbling notes. When there were accents actually written, I honestly couldn't tell they were accents. Again, if you do something, mean to do it, almost make it too obvious(what you hear as the player, is almost never what it sounds like to the listener).
It is obvious you can play the notes, now the hard part begins.... Shaping them.
Keep posting and working. Good luck, and God bless.
+1
This is precisely what I was going to say!
I would like to add that you might benefit from studying how trained singers hold their body(which is similar to what "sibass89" said). It "opens you up" so to speak(your natural, tension-free form), which will strengthen the connection from your soul to your body(and thus, the bass). Make sure that when you breathe, it comes from your stomach(diaphragm), and not your chest. Notice that if you breathe from the chest, your shoulders will move up and down.
