Custom machined tuner buttons?

[hooky_marr]

Hi all,

I’m designing a replacement neck to convert a guitar into a Bass VI. I’m planning on using Graph Tech Ratio bass Y key machine heads or similar Gotoh Resolites.

To get the headstock more compact, I was thinking of replacing the Y key buttons with narrower, knurled cylinder knobs so the spacing could be reduced a bit.

Sperzel used to make buttons like those for their guitar tuners, and Yamaha had similar ones on their RGXA2 guitars, fwiw.

Has anyone seen knobs like that for bass? Is this something that could be machined easily? (thinking a lightweight but hard alloy like duralumin, aircraft aluminum or titanium?)

 

[T_Bone_TL]

What does the stem look like with the button off, or what does the hole in the button look like? If it's a splined shaft, it's going to take some work (and perhaps a fancy broach, and I'm not talking jewelry) to make replacements. If it's flatted and held by a grub screw, replacements should be not too hard to fabricate.

Presumably you're adequately aware that smaller buttons will make it harder to turn the tuner (you need more force from your fingers since you have less leverage on the shaft.)

 

[Max Bogosity]

Following with interest because I have a similar problem to solve. In my case the tuner shaft is a cylinder with two flats. My current intent is to make knobs with square holes or, failing that, to cut down the current knobs.

But just to poke at your assumptions a bit, do you need to use bass tuners with big knobs? Most Bass VI-style instruments seem to get away with guitar tuners.

 

[hooky_marr]

@T_Bone_TL It looks pretty much exactly like a Gotoh GB7. On the PDF diagram the screw is a Philips head, but I'd have to take one apart to see what the button shaft is like.

FWIW, I've come across this company called ProperTune that makes aluminum roller knobs as replacements for most guitar tuning keys, this is sort of what I'm going for; it's also similar to Hipshot's "industrial" knob option for their guitar keys. i.e. not as wide as the Y key button (which is about 1.3"), but with enough grip to turn it easily.

And there's this listing at Shapeways to 3D print a similar nylon knob for a Gotoh bass tuner (I know they now do metal parts, so that would be interesting to see if I could use those files).

 

[hooky_marr]

But just to poke at your assumptions a bit, do you need to use bass tuners with big knobs? Most Bass VI-style instruments seem to get away with guitar tuners.

Yes, that's true, and that would be my fallback. I'm leaning towards bass tuners solely because the wider shaft can prevent wound strings from wrapping at too sharp of a break angle, particularly for a .90 or larger low E string, and also take more wraps before we start to hit the outer wrap.

I'll hopefully be able to use GHS' basic set they make for the Eastwood Hooky 6, if not I will get some done up by Pyramid so the lengths will be a perfect fit.

 

[Max Bogosity]

@T_Bone_TLFWIW, I've come across this company called ProperTune that makes aluminum roller knobs as replacements for most guitar tuning keys, this is sort of what I'm going for; it's also similar to Hipshot's "industrial" knob option for their guitar keys. i.e. not as wide as the Y key button (which is about 1.3"), but with enough grip to turn it easily.

That's a good find. The hole configuration is exactly what I was trying to describe, but they don't have a large enough size for my tuners. I just asked about a custom order, we'll see what they say. If the holes are produced by wire EDM, they wouldn't need any new tooling, just a new program.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

If you can find a knob that you like, such as a knurled chrome small Tone knob, then it's less difficult to machine up a small adapter that fits onto the tuner. If you find knobs that are made for a standard 1/4" pot shaft, you can make up an aluminum adapter that fits onto the tuner shaft, and is held on with a screw on the end. Converting the tuner to a smooth 1/4" shaft. Then put the knob on there and tighten it with the normal setscrew.

 

[mikewalker]

as you mentioned above, Hipshot already sells those small knurled tuner buttons now... "Industrial"
... maybe they can fabb you up a bass set? (they have done custom work for me before...)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Guitar Tuner Buttons (Sold Individually)

 

[hooky_marr]

If you can find a knob that you like, such as a knurled chrome small Tone knob, then it's less difficult to machine up a small adapter that fits onto the tuner. If you find knobs that are made for a standard 1/4" pot shaft, you can make up an aluminum adapter that fits onto the tuner shaft, and is held on with a screw on the end. Converting the tuner to a smooth 1/4" shaft. Then put the knob on there and tighten it with the normal setscrew.

Thanks Bruce. I was considering that option as well!

 

[hooky_marr]

as you mentioned above, Hipshot already sells those small knurled tuner buttons now... "Industrial"
... maybe they can fabb you up a bass set? (they have done custom work for me before...)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Guitar Tuner Buttons (Sold Individually)

Oh? Interesting, but in what quantities would they do that?

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Following with interest because I have a similar problem to solve. In my case the tuner shaft is a cylinder with two flats. My current intent is to make knobs with square holes or, failing that, to cut down the current knobs.

But just to poke at your assumptions a bit, do you need to use bass tuners with big knobs? Most Bass VI-style instruments seem to get away with guitar tuners.

This may give you some ideas. It's a technique I used to make a tiny knob to go on a flat switch lever.

Sirena Instrumentos Musicales - Expositions and Aspirations Regarding Luthiery in Fillmore, CA

For example, you could make a little aluminum cylinder which is smashed into a flattened oval, to fit over the tuner shaft, then turn the OD to a smooth cylinder. That becomes an insert into a round hole in a knob.

 

[ardgedee]

Have you contacted Sperzel? They offer a lot of custom options and might be able to make you a bass tuner set with guitar buttons.

(Edit: I think they offer cylinder knobs too, but their website is down now so I can't check.)

 

[J Posega]

Surely someone with milling skills could make what you want, but they'll probably need the original tuners or detailed engineers drawings to do it.

I actually just put together a Bass VI with a DC Kunkle conversion neck on a Tele body. I used Wilkinsontuners and just drilled out the hole in the shaft a little larger to accommodate the first tapered step-down of the Ernie Ball Bass VI string set on the E (.090) and for the A string (.074). Works great. None of the fat winding wraps around the tuning post but I'm able to wind on at least one wrap around. Tuning is stable and easy.

Those Ernie Ball strings were designed for their Silhouette Bass VI and later became the stock string set for the Schecter Ultra VI and Hellcat VI after La Bella discontinued their Hellcat VI string sets (and also fit on their 30" C 6 and the Harley Benton Guitarbass). They aren't long enough for Fender-style VI which has a lot of extra length after the bridge saddle because of the tremolo system.

Strings that fit Fender-style VI won't fit the Schecter-style VIs because they're way too long. But you could cheat that a bit by going with a reverse 6-in-line headstock. I would lean more towards this option because 1/ it's going to be hard to find someone to mill you custom tuning machine buttons, and 2/ you'll have the freedom to use off-the-shelf strings made for Fender-style VIs or get custom strings made.

 

[hooky_marr]

Have you contacted Sperzel? They offer a lot of custom options and might be able to make you a bass tuner set with guitar buttons.

(Edit: I think they offer cylinder knobs too, but their website is down now so I can't check.)

I did, but they said they no longer make bass tuners.

 

[hooky_marr]

Surely someone with milling skills could make what you want, but they'll probably need the original tuners or detailed engineers drawings to do it.

I actually just put together a Bass VI with a DC Kunkle conversion neck on a Tele body. I used Wilkinsontuners and just drilled out the hole in the shaft a little larger to accommodate the first tapered step-down of the Ernie Ball Bass VI string set on the E (.090) and for the A string (.074). Works great. None of the fat winding wraps around the tuning post but I'm able to wind on at least one wrap around. Tuning is stable and easy.

Those Ernie Ball strings were designed for their Silhouette Bass VI and later became the stock string set for the Schecter Ultra VI and Hellcat VI after La Bella discontinued their Hellcat VI string sets (and also fit on their 30" C 6 and the Harley Benton Guitarbass). They aren't long enough for Fender-style VI which has a lot of extra length after the bridge saddle because of the tremolo system.

Strings that fit Fender-style VI won't fit the Schecter-style VIs because they're way too long. But you could cheat that a bit by going with a reverse 6-in-line headstock. I would lean more towards this option because 1/ it's going to be hard to find someone to mill you custom tuning machine buttons, and 2/ you'll have the freedom to use off-the-shelf strings made for Fender-style VIs or get custom strings made.

All great points. I’m converting a Sterling Silo 20, so it would be similar to a Silhouette Bass except the bridge would not be as far back on the body. The Silo Bass is a bit shorter than 30” at 29.5” I believe, but I should be able to find strings that work. They use standard Schaller tuners on it, so I might be able to get away with those.

 

[ardgedee]

I did, but they said they no longer make bass tuners.

That's too bad... I was hoping to be able to use their tuners on a project someday.