Cutting band members loose

[Pocket Dave]

Respectfully, how many gigs are you playing? Are you drawing enough $$$ to attract the professionals you're seeking?
If not, do you have firm and actionable plans to scale the band to something that pros would be interested in?

I absolutely understand wanting to replace under-performing members on a team, but also recognize that firing them is (less than) half the battle. You still gotta attract and retain the talent you're seeking.

This is a great point. I'm semi-pro, as are most I work with. In my market, that means at least three nights a week gigging in different groups, with bands that attract better players working much more than once a month. You might find better players willing to gig less, even rehearse more, but not "pro people". You're talking a level of skill and experience that's going to expect revenue on the "P" side of their P&L statement.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

This reminds me of a time when I was in a band where the singer and guitarist had quit, and we were looking for replacements. The drummer told me he knew a GREAT singer who'd definitely wanted to join.

Problem was, that dude also played bass. So the drummer told me, and I quote: "We all have to consider what is best for the band, EPB. And this singer, he'd be great for the band".

The implication obviously being I'd have to stop being in the band, cos that was best for the band.

So I quit, wished him bad luck and moved on. He approached that singer/bassist, and the guy declined the offer.

 

[fretno]

Lots of good perspectives and a difficult spot, Im torn because you always want to have the best but you can’t always get what you want. What you do have may be better than you think, they show up ? Put in the time ? Open to working out things for a more solid performance? Then they don’t need replacing imo.

 

[mdogs]

The use of the word “pro,” for me, says about all I need to know.

 

[KenSmithFan]

I’m not sure why so many people are busting on the OP. You’ve never been in a band where any position needs an upgrade? I joined one band where the Drummer, bass player, female singer/keyboard were top notch. The other guitar player played quietly and I didn’t realize how bad he was until I insisted that he turn up. He was the singer and drummers buddy so replacing him was a non starter. I wound up leaving because on top of his poor playing, he was a jerk, it just took a while to come out.

I’d be straight with the BL. If he wants to make money, he needs pro quality members. It’s irrelevant that they are nice. There are plenty of top level players who are nice. Frankly, most of the Richard Craniums who I’ve encountered weren’t very good players either.

 

[FullumMusic]

I would like to talk the BL into replacing them, he seems interested, but...

This might be a bit of an out for you... You're not the BL? All you need to do is talk to the BL. You don't need to fire the lovely people who can't play well enough for the band. The BL does. If you're not the BL, it's kinda not your place to fire and hire members.

All you really need to do is talk to the BL about the situation, about their abilities, and about the replacement players. The BL can then see if the replacements are interested and if they'd even work out. And the BL can then deal with the hiring and firing.

 

[Brian Patterson]

I'll be honest: I am seeing a lot of problems reading your post, and they don't have anything to do with the singer or the guitar player.

You say that you are part of a "pro core" of the band. Is that the shared perspective between the three of you? If you guys are truly "pro", then I don't understand why you hired sub par players. Or do you just like to see yourself as part of the core and it was really the others who took the decision? And if you so meticulously divide players in "pro" and "not pro", how sure are you that the others don't see the guitar player and singer as "pro"? How sure are you that the others really see you in that category? How do you, in your view, distinguish yourself from them, and may there be anything that these guys bring to the table that is really valuable?
I am asking all these questions because, when you go talk to the drummer and keys player about others not being up to snuff, you wouldn't be the first musician ever to be in for a very uncomfortable surprise.

And then you need to look at replacements. You say you have one gig per month - that is not impressive at all if you want to attract true professionals (I'm assuming the three rehearsals you mentioned were a one time thing before you got the gig and you don't rehearse three times every month, because that would be... not so good). What more can you offer those players? Have you discussed with the others the requirements of playing in your band? Is it just skill or do personalities play a part? Are you okay with your band members playing in other projects as well and maybe not prioritizing your project (because right now, I don't see how a professional player would prioritize a one-gig-a-month start up)? And, most of all: if you hire because of skill alone, what do you do when a better bass player becomes available?

These questions may sound harsh, but I think you better go into that discussion prepared for all eventualities.

There's an issue with this group of people - and an opportunity in the solution. Especially if more gigs are desirable.

Could the 'departing' players be reassigned into the band as another rythm guitar and a backup singer?

May not be practical or a good split on the wages, but an honest appraisal should be possible wirth all memebers as to their contributions, and with a desire to be - or not be - 'pro' players, the benefit of the group should take first place.

 

[Danny O Danny]

If you do decide to collectively let these two go, the best way is face-to-face and with honesty with each one separately--and hopefully in such a way that they are encouraged to continue moving forward and improving. They deserve that. But be sure that the rest of the band is all in full agreement on doing this, or it could cause festering resentments that may explode down the road.

I was once in a band that broke up, and then reformed with a different bass player (who was also a terrific singer and a good looking guy). In other words, it was an elaborate ploy to fire me without having to fire me. I felt very hurt and betrayed when I realized what they had done. I confronted the guitarist (who was my close friend) about it, and he confessed that this had been the plan all along, when the other guy became available and approached them. In explaining this, the guitarist gently gave me some honest feedback that my playing hadn't been up to par, which was what made this other guy, who was a better player and singer, appealing when he came along. That honest feedback lit a fire under me and set me on a mission to shake off my complacency and hit the woodshed (cue Rocky training montage music). Ultimately it motivated me to become a better player (and singer), but the firing was done in a cowardly way by the band. They broke up again--for good--a few months later.

Many years later I was in a band where the weak link was the drummer. He was a super nice guy, and very enthusiastic about the band, but he tended to speed up and slow down, he overplayed, etc. He had been in the band before I joined. As bassist, his playing really got on my nerves, and I would have been happy to let him go and find a better drummer. The other band members were aware of his shortcomings, and did seriously consider replacing him, but they decided to take a different approach: we gently but firmly confronted him about his musical shortcomings and asked if he would be willing to work with us on improving them. He agreed. And so the band worked with him during rehearsals on simplifying his playing, focusing on his meter, etc. Over a period of months he did improve a lot--he really put in the effort and kept his ego in check. End result: we got a better drummer but still had the same really nice, dependable, committed guy--who appreciated the band even more because of our willingness to help him become better.

I'm reminded of a saying: "Perfect is the enemy of good." It appears to me that the singer and guitarist are good enough for where your band is at. My experience is that I'd rather work with someone who has a great attitude and is easy to get along with but needs some polishing, than with someone who is a great musician but has a difficult personality. I'm not saying those are necessarily your choices, but what if the replacements--if they work out--are not as easy to work with? What if, a little ways down the road, they decide *you* are the weak link?

It's remarkable how much the introduction of a new personality (or two) can effect a band, for better or worse. Sometimes taking the expeditious course of replacing members with better better ones (as if they're widgets) has unintended adverse consequences of changing the personal and relational dynamics within the band. But sometimes it all works out for the best. Food for thought, hopefully.

 

[Ostie]

As much as I dislike the “break up the band and re-form” approach (because it’s been used on me) that’s probably your best tactic here since you seem to be fond of the band members who don’t meet your expectations.

I was once fired for having rowdy friends who came to our gigs. At least that’s what I was told.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Speaking from experience: nothing worse than trying to incorporate a karaoke performer into an ensemble. They may be able to pull-off a couple passable tunes with canned tracks but that's where it ends. Harmonies? Don't even think about it.

Riis

 

[DrBnz]

Well I suppose it is a business and you can run it like that. Have you tried the other approach, which is to tell them when they didn't do good. Tell them where they need to focus their attention. Then when they don't - you replace them by stating facts that they aren't up to speed and don't seem to be making an effort to improve - hence we've elected to search for another XX. I say this because you said they were good people, they were doing the job and you can do a lot worse. Its entirely possible that they think they're doing great. Educate them

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

I remember being in a band where the long time bass player had to quit the band as he got married and moved away. They hired me after an audition with them. They were a bit older and experienced than I was but I was (by no means) not really any less accomplished or talented. I played with them for about 3-4 years with no issues.

Then one day, out of the blue, they sent me an email telling me they were "going in a different direction" and so they fired me (not even over the phone or face to face). Turns out their original bass player was moving back into town and they/he wanted to rejoin. I totally get wanting to get the "original" band members back together (as they had a long history together) and I had a ton of respect for that bass player. Super nice guy and a great player.

It was the way they went about it that bothered me. Things happen and I am open minded and understanding. All they had to do was at least give me the courtesy of explaining it to me face to face. I would have understood and backed out of the band allowing them to get the old bandmates back together again. It would have still hurt a little but I would have had far more respect for them if they didn't hide behind an email.

To this day, I still like the drummer and guitarist (as well as their original bass player). They are excellent players and genuinely nice guys. They both told me that they felt bad about the way it ended and liked playing music with me. It was the lead singer/rhythm guitarist who wanted his long time friend/bass player back in the band and lacked the guts to be honest.

Things happen. That's life. There were/are a lot of musicians/bands one can join after being discarded. My advice? Just be honest and nice to them. You never know...one day you might find you need them. I guarantee they'll forgive being "let go" but they will never forget "how" you did it.

As for me, it turned out to be a blessing as it wasn't too long after I joined a band with a far better situation. Better musicians, singers, music selection, etc. A much better, professional sound and lighting system, booked solid, huge following and really great people I loved hanging out with even beyond band functions. One of the best bands I ever played in over my 45 years of playing.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

You said you have a "band leader"?...
I think this falls under his per view. Its in the job description.

 

[KenSmithFan]

I remember being in a band where the long time bass player had to quit the band as he got married and moved away. They hired me after an audition with them. They were a bit older and experienced than I was but I was (by no means) not really any less accomplished or talented. I played with them for about 3-4 years with no issues.

Then one day, out of the blue, they sent me an email telling me they were "going in a different direction" and so they fired me (not even over the phone or face to face). Turns out their original bass player was moving back into town and they/he wanted to rejoin. I totally get wanting to get the "original" band members back together (as they had a long history together) and I had a ton of respect for that bass player. Super nice guy and a great player.

It was the way they went about it that bothered me. Things happen and I am open minded and understanding. All they had to do was at least give me the courtesy of explaining it to me face to face. I would have understood and backed out of the band allowing them to get the old bandmates back together again. It would have still hurt a little but I would have had far more respect for them if they didn't hide behind an email.

To this day, I still like the drummer and guitarist (as well as their original bass player). They are excellent players and genuinely nice guys. They both told me that they felt bad about the way it ended and liked playing music with me. It was the lead singer/rhythm guitarist who wanted his long time friend/bass player back in the band and lacked the guts to be honest.

Things happen. That's life. There were/are a lot of musicians/bands one can join after being discarded. My advice? Just be honest and nice to them. You never know...one day you might find you need them. I guarantee they'll forgive being "let go" but they will never forget "how" you did it.

As for me, it turned out to be a blessing as it wasn't too long after I joined a band with a far better situation. Better musicians, singers, music selection, etc. A much better, professional sound and lighting system, booked solid, huge following and really great people I loved hanging out with even beyond band functions. One of the best bands I ever played in over my 45 years of playing.

I once found out I was fired from a band when I was accidentally included on an email talking about which of my songs the new guitar player would sing.

I was in another band and they got tired of working around my schedule, which I was upfront about when I joined. I wasn’t mad, just felt a little bad that they didn’t trust me enough to tell me what they were doing.

We actually had a good laugh about it when I called to tell them what happened. I finished my gigs and worked with them a couple of times after I left. I’m still good friends with the bass player.

 

[mr80htz]

Harsh comment alert: You guys are not pros. That's not to say that you don't occasionally moonlight as a pro, but people who require as much time as you need for a gig that's the same every month seems like huge overkill...unless it's all about having a fun time with each other...which is doesnt seem that's the truth. Don't say anything about bring a pro outfit when you let these folks go. You are struggling to find enjoyment and want to try something else. That's valid. Sometimes your favorite shirt gets too tight. Time to buy a larger shirt. It's okay for relationships to change

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I'd have to know more about the band's make up. Are you the new guy? Are they new to the band? For a band that plays once a month, I wouldn't expect top notch pros. But replacing 2/5 of the band is going to change the chemistry completely and you may find the new people know a bassist that would be a better fit.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Regardless of whether you fire the two members or call it "reforming the band", you owe it to yourself, if not the two members to be polite and HONEST.

You feel they're just not the right fit.

BTW, If you blow up the band and reform it, they WILL find out and see it for what it really is, kind of a chickens*** move.

Be better than that.

 

[J Wilson]

To echo what many have already said, I'd be honest without being brutal or demeaning,

But you BETTER be dang sure the folks you're bringing in are going to be worth it. Sometimes cats that aren't as far along but are 'all in' and dependable and not being headcases may be a blessing disguise, especially if you can bring them along. Sometimes, the 'pros' you bring in can bring with them the attitude they don't need to work at it, they GOT this, what's the big deal? I'd prefer the former to the latter.

It's never easy no matter what, but at a certain point it can cost you bookings and then it's required IF you want to go to those dates, and business needs to be taken care of.

 

[Pocket Dave]

To echo what many have already said, I'd be honest without being brutal or demeaning,

But you BETTER be dang sure the folks you're bringing in are going to be worth it. Sometimes cats that aren't as far along but are 'all in' and dependable and not being headcases may be a blessing disguise, especially if you can bring them along. Sometimes, the 'pros' you bring in can bring with them the attitude they don't need to work at it, they GOT this, what's the big deal? I'd prefer the former to the latter.

It's never easy no matter what, but at a certain point it can cost you bookings and then it's required IF you want to go to those dates, and business needs to be taken care of.

Those aren't pros if they show up unprepared, bring drama or are unreliable.

They may have pro-level skills, but no one, pro or not, is going to tolerate working with them.

 

[J Wilson]

Those aren't pros if they show up unprepared, bring drama or are unreliable.

They may have pro-level skills, but no one, pro or not, is going to tolerate working with them.

Dave, you and me see eye to eye on that. However, I've seen bands put up with a lot for 'better' players, and I bet you have, too.