Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Darkglass Super Symmetry
- Thread starter depalm
- Start date
Damn. Cali compacts and this? The compressor game is insane right now
Looks alright, but 'taking over the bass world'?
Big words...
It's also a bit big for me.
Still...I'm interested in trying it out.
Big words...
It's also a bit big for me.
Still...I'm interested in trying it out.
Last edited:
From the photo, it looks like the knobs are: input, output, blend, ratio, attack, release...?
Don't want to derail the enthusiasm, but as a side-note: I never understood the reason for having both a blend and a ratio. Aren't they essentially the same thing? I mean, I understand that they represent different parameters, but mathematically, a fixed high ratio with a blend seems like a variable ration with no blend...
Don't want to derail the enthusiasm, but as a side-note: I never understood the reason for having both a blend and a ratio. Aren't they essentially the same thing? I mean, I understand that they represent different parameters, but mathematically, a fixed high ratio with a blend seems like a variable ration with no blend...
This is kinda true using middle ground settings. Not so much for extreme ones.
For example with a high ratio you're getting a traditional limiter, not allowing the volume to go above a certain limit. Now take the threshold way down and you'll always be at the peak whenever you're playing (it will also get noisy). Dial back the blend to taste and... now you're regaining dynamics but never going below a certain limit. You just turned you compressor into a sustainer.
Last edited:
a blend and a ratio aren't even close to being the same thing. they do not relate in any way whatsoever. the ratio controls the slope of the output gain of any signal over the threshold. i.e. a ratio of 4:1 means that for every 4 dB of input above the threshold, the compressor only puts out 1 dB above the threshold (signals lower than the threshold pass unaffected.) a ratio of 8:1 means that for every 8 dB of input above the threshold, the compressor puts out 1 dB above the threshold.
speaking with real numbers here, let's say that a given compressor has a threshold of -12dB with a ratio of 3:1. any signal below -12 db will be completely unaffected by that compressor. as the signal crosses that -12 dB threshold, it is attenuated according to the 3:1 ratio setting. so an input signal of -14 dB would have an output of -14 db. an input signal of -12 dB would have an output signal of -12 db. an input signal of -9dB would be 3 dB over the threshold. that signal over the threshold would be attenuated according to the 3:1 ratio, leaving any signal below the threshold unaffected. it is 3dB above the threshold, which would be attenuated to only 1dB above the threshold, so an input signal of -9 dB would leave that compressor at -11 dB. using those same compressor settings, an input of -3 dB would be 9 dB over the threshold, attenuated according to the 3:1 ratio to just 3 dB over the threshold, with a final output of -9 dB. an input of 0 dB would be 12 dB above the threshold, attenuated according to the 3:1 ratio would be 4 dB above the threshold, for an out put level of -8 dB.
so with a threshold of -12 dB and a ratio of 3:1, the following is true:
input: -14 dB output: -14 dB, 0 attenuation.
input: -12 dB output: -12 dB, 0 attenuation.
input: -9 dB output: -11 dB, 2 dB of attenuation.
input: -3 dB output: -9 dB, 6 dB of attenuation.
input: 0 dB output: -8 dB, 8 dB of attenuation.
the greater the signal over the threshold, the more it is attenuated, always by the same ratio. compressors with a ratio of 10:1 or greater are generally considered to be limiters b/c the drastic amount of attenuation essentially limits or freezes the maximum output to the be about the same as the threshold (with a ratio of 10:1, a signal would have to be an entire 30 dB above the threshold to reach a level of just 3 dB above the threshold.)
a dry blend just mixes in some of the dry, uncompressed signal. under normal usage, this has more to do with preserving transients and reducing some of the unintended tonal changes that can sometimes be caused by heavy compression than it does with increasing output level (which would be the argument for a dry blend actually varying the ratio.) To put it a different way, a dry blend modifies the gain envelope and frequency content of the compressed signal, not the output level.
on a side note, it appears that this compressor is another design involving boosting/cutting input gain into a fixed threshold, which seems to be the new preferred method for pedal compressors these days. does anybody know why? a proper threshold control seems both easier to use and easier to comprehend, but maybe that's just the way my brain works.
not that i'm criticizing, i'm sure this is a fantastic comp that will fully stand up to the high opinion TBers have formed of DG, i'm more just curious about what i see as an emerging trend.
also those gain reduction lights look siiiiiiiiiiiiiiick.
Looks fantastic, but...the name....eh! Stoked though. Comes down to pricing, and if it's not borderline obscene like a certain other favorite compressor pedal...
Thanks for the detailed examples, but wait: Take the exact same numbers that you used in your example, and just use an "infinite" ratio and a 1:3 blend. Aren't you getting the exact same output levels?
My guess is that the pedals that have a single threshold knob instead of the two knobs for input and output levels are actually hiding the exact same 2-stage boost/cut circuitry (input staging and output staging) behind this single knob and that since the overall gain of the circuit is dependent not only on the knobs' positions but also on the input signal (as nicely exemplified in your own post), having explicit input and output setting actually makes dialing in the right settings with the right overall gain easier, at least for the more extreme forms of compression.
Although ironically, they are not quite symmetrically placed...
I think so
But the attack/release controls only affect the compressed signal, therefore those 2 similar settings would have different ADSR curves
This is also true of any baked-in "magic" a circuit may have, or other things such as a sidechain
- Dec 10, 2008
- 2,341
- 5,822
- Disclosures
- Douglas Castro, Founder: darkglass.com
Thanks, actually the Ratio knob will be named Compression. Same control but we just felt like it described better the function.
As for the Blend, it has several uses that I think are very valuable: just to name one, being able to adjust compression levels on the fly, as it allows to go from a pretty squashy/extreme setting to moderate compression just by tweaking one knob (bringing the Blend back for example) instead of having to adjust virtually every single one to get less compression while matching Output volume and Threshold...
Wow! Haven't expected getting a direct reply from the actual makers. That's some impressive demonstration of customer-relations / listening-to-your-users, and the explanation actually makes perfect sense. Now I actually understand what's this knob for
- Dec 10, 2008
- 2,341
- 5,822
- Disclosures
- Douglas Castro, Founder: darkglass.com
Wow! Haven't expected getting a direct reply from the actual makers. That's some impressive demonstration of customer-relations / listening-to-your-users, and the explanation actually makes perfect sense. Now I actually understand what's this knob for
Great! Glad I could help man. And of course, Talkbass was huge to us in the beginning, I'll never forget that and will continue to post and answer questions to the best of my capabilities
.
"115 GeV": does that mean Germanium Voluptuousness?
The other possibility was 115 Giga electron Volts, and some quick Googling led me to Higgs boson/God particle, and subsequently to Invalid Link Removed.
Science nerds rock!
The other possibility was 115 Giga electron Volts, and some quick Googling led me to Higgs boson/God particle, and subsequently to Invalid Link Removed.
Science nerds rock!
- Dec 10, 2008
- 2,341
- 5,822
- Disclosures
- Douglas Castro, Founder: darkglass.com
"115 GeV": does that mean Germanium Voluptuousness?
The other possibility was 115 Giga electron Volts, and some quick Googling led me to Higgs boson/God particle, and subsequently to Invalid Link Removed.
Science nerds rock!
at this point i may be in over my head w/ my understanding of compressor design, but i was under the impression that compressors with a true threshold control (as opposed to a fixed threshold w/ variable input gain) used one of two methods:
a) actually changing the threshold value in the detection circuit, or
b) staying w/ the fixed threshold idea, but boosting the signal at the detection circuit/sidechain.
either approach has the effect of inducing compression w/o boosting the actual input signal, making it less likely to introduce/amplify noise, "color" the signal w/ any unwanted tonal changes from the amplifying stage, or even clip the input stage of the compressor.
i'm not trying to make a value judgment about any of the compressors described. obviously, plenty of highly sought-after and remarkable compressors use the fixed threshold/variable input gain design, and i'm not gonna go around telling people not to use an LA 2 just b/c there's no dedicated threshold control. i just thought for a while i was seeing a bunch of stuff with threshold controls, and now i'm seeing a bunch of stuff with variable input gain.
