Double Bass David Gage Realist Pickup: Preamp or not

[Jefenator]

For me it's very difficult to understand, as I have very little knowledge about electronics. Instinctivelly I would say the more electronics the more electronic sound. My experience included Realist and Radial PZ Pre for acoustic instruments. However, Realist into Fdeck preamp is fine, no problems. Maybe because it's so simple device.
But could't just the fact of changing the impedance to 10Mohm be enough reason for changing the sound? (Which is more true with the Radial and less with Fdeck pre for some reason)

On the Radial PZ-Pre, each input has a recessed "PZB" switch that alters the input impedance between 16.8K and 10M. If that by chance was set for 16.8K, I would expect it to make a very noticeable difference for the worse.

I concur that the "wrong" preamp will do more harm than good. It might be voiced in some subtle way that doesn't agree with a particular bass / pickup / amp. (IME: no EQ > cheesy EQ.) Or the input impedance might not be in the range one assumes. (A lot of the popular "stomp box" outboard pre's for electric bass are the same or lower value than my amps. )

I'm all for simplicity and I religiously avoid cluttering up my signal chain. But IME the "right" buffer preamp provides great benefit and more than justifies some minor expense & complication.

YMMV of course.

 

[Ric Vice]

+1 IME/O





* EDIT: apparently the GK input impedance is actually 1M, NOT 500K as I stated above. My bad. (I still do prefer it with an outboard buffer.)

Jeff,
Specs about input impedance don't really jump of the page at you. GK was one of the first amps to use the 1 Meg Ohm input impedance after Walter Woods did it years earlier. I did some investigating last year and there are lot's of amplifiers out there with a 1 Meg Ohm load now. That didn't used to be the case. Unfortunately, Markbass isn't one of them. I sense that setting the input impedance at 10 Meg Ohm changes the way Electric Basses sound through the amp, just a guess, but most manufactures seem pretty reluctant to do that.

 

[Ben Esparza]

I did A/B the Realist with and without the Raven Labs PHA-1. I found the tone of the GK MBE head set flat was perfect for the string bass tone and really made it sound like the bass...only louder. I then patched the Raven Labs in and it was too boomy. STUPID ME!...the Raven Labs carries 2 - 9-volt batteries and the signal going into the amp was too hot. I pressed in the -10dB pad button on the amp's input and it really got rid of the boom.

The preamp made it sound like the bass...even better than the tone directly into the amp. It indeed smoothed out the tone. I kept everything flat. I like the option of having it on a little shelf I mounted on my music stand. I can adjust the volume without having to clumsily reach back to the amp. Cool beans.

 

[drurb]

But could't just the fact of changing the impedance to 10Mohm be enough reason for changing the sound?

Indeed! It is the 10 Mohm loading of the piezo that produces the desired response. Fdeck's device is basically a very clean, low-noise buffer-amp that provides that change. Onto that, he hung a nice adjustable HPF and a phase-switch. Just what you need and nothing more. Everyone here who uses a piezo pickup should have one-- even if just as a spare pre-amp.

 

[Jefenator]

Just got the preamp from Fdeck in the mail today and got to try it out on the gig. It performed as I hoped. I got the same massive, natural sound I got with the Countryman DI in a convenient little package I can leave plugged in & wedged behind the tail piece.

Both units have the 10M input impedance - that seems to be the ticket for me (at least with DB pickups). The Full Circle is still okay but noticeably more "scratchy", going straight to my 1M amp. (I could see how some might prefer this - especially if they want more "growl".)

Another thanks to Fdeck for sharing that nifty little buffer unit with us.

 

[lukaspearse]

I find my Realist going into my LMII sounds much better without my Fishman pre, but that my Underwood is useless without the pre.

Any insights as to why this might be?

 

[Basswhore]

The realist is a nice pickup. I used one for many years. It will work in most situations without a pre, but not all. I didn't work plugged straight into the 1/4 jack input on a peavey PA, and it didn't work on the input of a SWR SM-900. If you run it thru something as simple as a boss tuner to change the impedance, it will work most situations though.

 

[William Hoffman]

..and if a HPF and phase-switch is what you are after, then you just can't beat Invalid Link Removed. I recommend its use with ANY piezo pickup.

(I have no business interest in Francis' wonderful device.)

not to derail the thread, but does the f-deck also add impedance or boost the already high impedance of say, a Realist? does that create any problems for amping?

also, if i want the phase switch aspect to complement an AI head (it already has the HPF), should i run it Realist-f-deck-Focus or Realist-Focus-f-deck in the Fx? what is the difference between those? (sorry if this was asked and answered).

thanks in advance for an erudite response.

 

[Rxchard]

Tone secret. The realist sounds great through a mixing board etc. but if you want to plug into amp depending on input impedance your tone can vary. This pedal is cheap and is literally paired perfect for the realist at 10Mohms which very few pedals are. It has a mute and notch function which are great tools and with very literal processing it just pairs perfect for using any bass amp and projecting pure tone. Here are my settings:

 

[Acoop]

I have a Wilson on my carved and a Realist on my laminated and run both of them through a Radial Bassbone and prefer the sound, but most modern D amps have the op-amp that levels the signal from an upright contact pickup to make it usable. ...

 

[Ric Vice]

not to derail the thread, but does the f-deck also add impedance or boost the already high impedance of say, a Realist? does that create any problems for amping?

also, if i want the phase switch aspect to complement an AI head (it already has the HPF), should i run it Realist-f-deck-Focus or Realist-Focus-f-deck in the Fx? what is the difference between those? (sorry if this was asked and answered).

thanks in advance for an erudite response.

The FDeck Buffer Preamp i"raises" the input impedance to 10 Meg Ohms. It creates no problems for amplifying your signal because it only increases the output by 2 DB just enough to account for it's place in the signal chain.
You have to run it Realist>FDeck>Focus to gain the benefit of the FDecks buffer. If you do it the other way, you loose the impedance buffering. The FDeck HPF/Buffer/Preamp has a phase reverse switch on the box.

 

[oren]

And FWIW, Markbass lists the input impedance of the CMD-121P as 1 Mohm. I’ve used mine directly with a Realist Lifeline and a Full Circle with no preamp and have been pleased with the sound.
[This invalid link has been removed]

 

[Jefenator]

I've been trying for 12 1/2 years (since my last post on this thread) to retire the fDeck, but I still haven't encountered an amp head that sounds as full & natural without it.
I'm not committed to the brand or the 10M spec, just the result I observe every time I A/B.
I do have my eye on some other outboard buffering solutions (Grace Alix/Felix, Noble and believe it or not, Zoom B6). But I also really like the convenience of the 9V battery.