dealing with 9,11, and 13 on the bass

[jeronimoski]

Hi all,

I know my scales and also the chord types (maj, minor, dominant, m7b5).

I recently joined a jazz band with a drummer, guitarist, and a keyboardist. We play for fun, so there's no stress at all.

My question is this. When I play along to a standard, I basically play the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th depending on the type of chord. I just play them in different orders to see what sounds good. Can I also be using the 9th, 11th, and 13th notes? Or will it sound strange?

For example, here are three songs that we jam to:
Sunny
Someday my prince will come
Fly me to the moon

So Sunny doesn't have a 9th, 11th, or 13th markings in it. Does that mean that, if I play one of the chords in the song and add one of these extensions, will that be a nono?
The other songs do have 9th extensions marked on the sheet. Does that mean that this is the only time that I can play them?

Or should I just avoid these and stick with the root, 3rd, 5th and 7th of the chords?

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Wasnex]

Hi all,

I know my scales and also the chord types (maj, minor, dominant, m7b5).

I recently joined a jazz band with a drummer, guitarist, and a keyboardist. We play for fun, so there's no stress at all.

My question is this. When I play along to a standard, I basically play the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th depending on the type of chord. I just play them in different orders to see what sounds good. Can I also be using the 9th, 11th, and 13th notes? Or will it sound strange?

For example, here are three songs that we jam to:
Sunny
Someday my prince will come
Fly me to the moon

So Sunny doesn't have a 9th, 11th, or 13th markings in it. Does that mean that, if I play one of the chords in the song and add one of these extensions, will that be a nono?
The other songs do have 9th extensions marked on the sheet. Does that mean that this is the only time that I can play them?

Or should I just avoid these and stick with the root, 3rd, 5th and 7th of the chords?

Many thanks in advance.

Playing only chords tones is a very basic type of walking line. In other to make things more interesting you need to also learn to sprinkle in non-chord tones. Most non-chord tones will be diatonic to whatever key center you are in at the moment, but you will also frequently use chromatic notes that may be non-diatonic.

I think tend to categorize my walking lines three ways. 1. Arpeggiated lines--these are primarily chord tones. You can also throw in extensions if you like. 2. Linear lines--these mix chord tones and none chord tones and typically move in stepwise motion. For example you might play 1,1,2,3 to walk up from the I to the IV chord. 3. Hybrid lines--these also mix chord tones and none chord tones. The type of line would mix stepwise motion with jumps.

For now, you should play the root of the chord on the down beat frequently. Also beats 1 and 3 should generally be chord tones, and you should place none chord tones on beats 2 or 4, or 2 and 4. Of course as you get more advanced, you will learn that you can violate these rules.

Here is an online book you may find interesting: [Bob magnusson] the_art_of_walking_bass_a_method_(book_za.org)
Check out the concepts Chromatic Approach, and Chromatic Surround. I use Chromatic Approaches quite easily without thinking about it. The Chromatic Surround is a bit more challenging. But if you really study the concept, you will eventually learn to hear it and anticipate where to play it with having to think about it too much.

 

[jeronimoski]

3. Hybrid lines--these also mix chord tones and none chord tones. The type of line would mix stepwise motion with jumps.

Thanks. Can you give me an example of this?

 

[Wasnex]

3. Hybrid lines--these also mix chord tones and none chord tones. The type of line would mix stepwise motion with jumps.

Thanks. Can you give me an example of this?

Pretty much anything that is not strictly arpeggiated or strictly linear is hybrid. For example, Amin to DMaj |A,E,C,C#|D,E,F#,A| The C# is a chromatic approach, but C,C#|D,E,F# is all linear


I consider a line arpeggiated even if the chord tones come out of order. Two bars of AMaj7, 1st bar is arpeggiated and second bar is linear |A,E,C#,G#|A,G#,F#,E|

These are terms I use to describe different ways of building a bass line, so don't get too hung up on them. I pretty much move back and fourth between arpeggiated and linear, and hybrid just happens. Stylistically a song may tend to favor one or the other.

 

[Groove Master]

You have to learn the vertical stack of chords and their harmonic functions within the key to know which ones are the right extensions (altered or not).

Those extensions will tell you what scale to play not necessarily to target those.

 

[dreamadream99]

Extensions are for the soloist and pianist. I use the same walk for Cm7-F7, Cm9-F9, Cm11-F11, and Cm13-F13.

walking with chord notes only is not always the most effective walk. Remember, our role is to forecast the next chord change. Most of my walking is linear from root to root, either up or down.

 

[Oneirogenic]

Most of the time the upper extensions don't need serious consideration while walking a bass line but you should pay attention to hitting the correct chord tone/scale degrees for example on a G7b9 if you walked R 2 b3 3 up to a Cm7 you'd want to make sure that the 2nd scale degree was flattened to match the flattened 9th of the chord and so on with any other altered extensions.

 

[12BitSlab]

@jeronimoski , try this little experiment. On your 3rd song, Fly Me To The Moon, look at the first 4 bars. Each chord moves up a 4th and you have 5 of those in a row.

On beat 1 of the first chord, play an A on the 14th fret of the G-string. Then merely walk down the C Major scale. You'll end up playing:

A G F E
D C B A
G F E D
C etc.

It will sound very good. Then go back and see which notes of each chord you're playing. You'll see that you can play notes outside of chord tones and have those notes sound just as appropriate as chord tones. The added bonus is that what you play will sound less machine like and more like a human.

Good luck!

 

[mambo4]

Once I get beyond the 7th I abandon theory for my ears, mostly.

My oversimplified concept of the chord tone hierarchy:
Root: play on the down beat, mostly
Chord tones (3,5,7): play on strong beats, mostly
All other tones: use your ear, don't clash

so in that simple formula extensions / tensions are simply 'notes to not clash with'

that said extensions/tensions are added for three reasons:
1: it's the melody note
2: mindful voice leading
3: mindless jazz

I keep an eye out for #2 because it presents opportunities for nice chromatic or step wise motion in my bass line.
for example, the Fly Me to the Moon the turn around is | B m7b5 E7b9 | A m7 |
which outlines a nice B - Bb - A motion.

Take it with a grain of salt, I am not so steeped in the tradition as others here.

 

[consectaneus]

Are you interested in the concept of jazz language?

Your comment, "I basically play the root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th depending on the type of chord. I just play them in different orders to see what sounds good" catches my attention.

As far as I can recall, I only hear bass players on walking threads say things like this. Hard to imagine a jazz pianist or saxophonist saying this. I believe jazz sounds like jazz because a lot of really great musicians before us spent a lot of years creating the vocabulary. It's true we aren't soloists, and simply playing the right notes to match a chord is functional but what I hope you will do if you aren't doing so already is find bass transcriptions of some definitive recordings of classic tunes. I'm personally on a Paul Chambers kick, but it can be any one of many others. Memorize several pages until they become a part of you. I hope you will be as amazed as I was how much their note choices were not random or merely outlined the changes, but were often musical statements in their own right, with theme and repetition and variation and yes, melody. This isn't to be a clone of anyone, but I hope you would find it as inspiring as I do.