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Dealing with multiple EQ points in the signal chain

wolffire99

wolffire99

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Feb 19, 2013
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#1
I’m just curious how everyone deals with multiple eq points in the signal chain. How do you make them work together vs opposed?

The most common situation I see, and my situation, is an EQ on my preamp pedal at the beginning + an EQ on a DI pedal at the end. Think a DCX into a Noble or a Sushibox UA into Neptunium at the end.

Is it better to boost/cut certain things at the beginning or end of chain and why?
 
#2
For me, EQ at different places (just like compression) does different things.
1. EQ just after bass guitar (or on onboard preamp) is correction, it's there to fix overly boomy or thin sounding bass. Maybe something on the fly when i.e. I go to bridge pickup and need a bit more low mids. I never do too much here. If there are pedal effects later, it affects them. If I would have compression here (and I never do), it would be to fix problems, like inconsistent signal from different strings/pickups. Obviously, this should be fixed by proper setup and technique.
2. EQ at preamp/DI is there to produce final bass guitar sound. Typically, just a little low end added, rarely small changes with mids. Goal here is to have good sounding bass guitar, whether it is clean, or I added some effect.
3. EQ at mixing desk is there to adopt signal to venue PA speakers and room acoustics. Here anything goes, as speakers and acoustics can be really weird. This part is only for sound guy, unless that's you.

In short, less is more. I do only meaningful changes that I understand.
 
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#3
I rarely use dirt stacked in a bunch of different ways, so I start with my 'most likely to be on' pedal and get it where I like and then EQ the rest to do what I want when paired with that one. I usually have to do all this in a mix to get it right.

Edit: if I have 2 that are always on, I pick the one that I favor (or sometimes the one with the most baked in sound), get it dialed and then turn the other on and fix it up.
 
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#5
I’ll preface the following by saying that I do not use pedal EQ, except sometimes an RFE after my distortion pedal for a better sound.

I EQ my amp to the room/my preferred sound. I then use the preamp on my bass to attain a particular sound for the song I’m playing at the moment, or to goose a pedal down the line in some particular way.
 
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#7
wolffire99 said:
Is it better to boost/cut certain things at the beginning or end of chain and why?
Click to expand...
Best answer is it depends. Many effects will produce different results, depending upon if EQ is applied pre or post. For example I generally prefer EQ after compression. If you boost a certain frequency band before a compressor, the compressor will key off the boost, which may produce unnatural results.

Another big problem with multiple EQ points is it' hard to understand exactly what the different bands are doing and what the resultant response curve looks like. This leaves you to simply fiddle with the knobs and/or faders till it sounds the way you want.
 
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#8
Zooberwerx said:
Totally unpredictable when it comes to interplay. Case-in-point: 3 band onboard Noll preamp > HPF > el-cheapo Sonicake Factory preamp > EBS bass amp with all the bells & whistles. It's configured so the Sonicake DI sounds good at the end of the chain and that was purely by accident.

Riis
Click to expand...
Which Noll? I’ve been looking at them and Glockenklang (had previously and loved). The treble frequency on both seems very high but the Glock was very musical
 
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#9
I generally run things flat, except on the bass to adjust from song to song. For the Starfire, I have Alembic Series II filters, so it's mostly about the attack of the note. Recently, I added an Osiris Philter, which has been a great tone shaping tool, so that changes from song to song, too. My amp (Genzler) is generally flat.

I also use the EQ in my HX Stomp to get certain tones of various amps and what not.
 
#10
Wasnex said:
Best answer is it depends. Many effects will produce different results, depending upon if EQ is applied pre or post. For example I generally prefer EQ after compression. If you boost a certain frequency band before a compressor, the compressor will key off the boost, which may produce unnatural results.
Click to expand...

Unless the EQ is being used to correct an imbalance that is triggering the compression in an undesirable way.
 
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#11
Ultimately, the answer is that there isn't a correct or incorrect way to handle this. Different gear behaves differently. Sometimes I like how the midrange of a particular piece of gear responds, or maybe I like the low end. Or how it distorts.

I think the important thing to consider is that most gear is designed to be at its most neutral when the settings are in the middle. So start there. And if you're feeling like to have too little of something or too much of something, adjust accordingly. Then reset and try the adjustment elsewhere in the chain. See what you prefer.
 
#12
burgerdj said:
Which Noll? I’ve been looking at them and Glockenklang (had previously and loved). The treble frequency on both seems very high but the Glock was very musical
Click to expand...

Just looked....TCM3 three-band. Not my idea, it was spec'd by the original owner. It's paired with now-discontinued Bart soapbars. I run it flat plus it has P/P active-passive option. It's nice but I'm not overly-excited when compared to Audere, OBP-3, etc.

Riis
 
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#13
Podgorny said:
Unless the EQ is being used to correct an imbalance that is triggering the compression in an undesirable way.
Click to expand...


If you want to apply EQ without impacting how the compressor tracks, place the EQ after the compressor.

If you want to use the EQ to primarily modify how the compressor responds; rather than as a tone control, place the EQ in the compressor's sidechain. NOTE: Note all compressors allow you to use the sidechain.

IME running EQ boost before a compressor can cause the sound to be a bit unnatural. Applying a cut before EQ seems less likely to cause the problem.
 
#14
Wasnex said:
IME running EQ boost before a compressor can cause the sound to be a bit unnatural. Applying a cut before EQ seems less likely to cause the problem.
Click to expand...

If we're talking about recording, I EQ before compressing 99.9% of the time. That's not to say there isn't also EQ happening after, but at least for tracking, it's typically Mic > Pre > EQ > Compressor. Then come mix, anything is possible.

But in the world of basses and pedals and amps, I'm not sure 3-band on-board active EQ and graphic EQ on the amps has necessarily changed things for the better.
 
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#15
Podgorny said:
If we're talking about recording, I EQ before compressing 99.9% of the time. That's not to say there isn't also EQ happening after, but at least for tracking, it's typically Mic > Pre > EQ > Compressor. Then come mix, anything is possible.

But in the world of basses and pedals and amps, I'm not sure 3-band on-board active EQ and graphic EQ on the amps has necessarily changed things for the better.
Click to expand...
My experiments were mostly as a player with pedals. If the EQ boost is gentle and broad band, pre compression EQ can work fine. But every time I have done an AB compression (Pre VS Post) I preferred the response with the EQ placed after the compressor. As a player it just feels a lot more natural to me.

However, as you have said, YMMV applies; especially since there is likely to be a bit different aesthetic between playing bass and mixing bass.

I did quite a bit of live work as an audio tech. The digital mixers I used placed internal channel dynamics post channel EQ. Not what I prefer, but I made it work. The insert point was pre EQ, so I could have carried outboard compressors. It never became enough of an issue for me to put in the effort.

Here is the channel block diagram for one of the mixers I used (Yamaha LS9):
1745169211378.png
 
#18
The bar band I play with goes direct, and my tone-shaping is pretty simple: the tone knob on the P-Bass, the tilt eq on the Alma compressor, and the two-band plus range control on the Arkham Oracle preamp.

  • I adjust the tone knob for song vibes. Default is halfway or so, and then I'll open it all the way up for brighter rock songs.
  • I tend to keep the tilt eq on the Alma boosting a little low and cutting a little high. On a gig, if I'm boomy, this is where I go first.
  • The Oracle is mostly there for rounding out the tone, with bass boosted some, treble cut, and range making the bass control affect well into the mids.

I let our soundperson correct most weirdness in the room, although there is a room we play in where I've consistently had to eq wildly differently because of boom issues. Everywhere else, the above description works with very little adjustment.
 
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#19
bassbrad said:
My method is to have the sound I desire coming from my pedalboard and use the amp EQ strictly for shaping sound to fit the room or space.
Click to expand...
Same here.

The EQ setting I send to FOH is usually modest: HPF in the 30-60Hz range, either slight cut in low mids and/or gentle boost in high mids, LPF at the 5-7 Hz range.

The EQ setting on my amp is usually more drastic and it depends on what my monitoring needs are in the particular room/on the particular stage. In some cases, I might cut all the lows, boost high mids a lot and cut anything above let's say 1.5kHz with LPF.
 
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#20
wolffire99 said:
I’m just curious how everyone deals with multiple eq points in the signal chain. How do you make them work together vs opposed?...
Click to expand...
A question for the ages. Or at least for the past ten years.

Some discussion of this is here:

Nuage420

Thread 'So many places to adjust EQ!'

Where do you guys adjust your EQ?

Barbaric.Eric

Thread 'Stacking Multiple EQ's'

Hey TB,
Just looking to hear how some of you more experienced guys go about setting up multiple EQ's in a chain.

For example; between my bass, a D.I. preamp pedal & my amp head... I have three separate EQ's all stacked over each other (2 band, 4 band then a 3 band).

How do you guys go about setting up your EQ's and stacking them to get the best out of your gear? Any tips or 'rule of thumbs' that you use to dial in your sound (specifically when it comes to two or more EQ's in a chain)?

I've seen a post recently about setting your bass EQ flat, and then tweaking your EQ only on...

jdh3000

Thread 'How many eq's are you using?'

Everyone uses some type eq...
be it a tone knobs on the bass and/or amp, graphic amp eq, parametric, etc.

I was using eq on the bass, a 4 band(bass, low mid, hight mid, treble) in a zoom ms60b, to an empress paraeq, to a flat amp.

That was a setup I've been using live for a while.

I recently add a Le Bass tube preamp, and a Tech 21 Q Strip, removed the eq in the zoom. I've left the Empress ParaEq on the board thinking that I can still use the narrow q to fine tune even past what the Q Strip will do, I don't know if it will come up live as I've yet to try it there.

I'm...

jacoby75

Thread 'Multiple EQ pedals and order of pedals. Does it matter?'

Hey guys,

Question for you. If I'm running preamps and EQ pedals in a chain, and even a LPF/HPF, does the order I run them in impact the end result of the signal or not? For example, in this scenario I recently got a Barber Linden EQ. I want to run it with a Trickfish Minnow preamp. (I could just try it and answer my own question, I know, but the way my pedalboard is set up it would be difficult to try it before the Minnow, so bear with me here. I'm speaking theoretically). The Linden after the Minnow sounds really good, but the Minnow is a bit hot and clips the Linden. I'm...

edbnuts

Thread 'Why so many EQ options?'

Hello,

Every bass has some kind of onboard tone shaping (active/passive), most amps have a pre amp section for EQ for tone shaping and there is a great number of pedal offerings for tone shaping but why? I’m interested in understanding why a three band onboard preamp isn’t enough that an amp with tone knobs and sometimes a graphic EQ and parametric mid control and/or EQ pedals are all in play. We’ve all heard “roll up the tone on your P and go” or “the tone is in your fingers” while some of us utilize a rack mount system that rivals some recording studios. Why do some players focus so...
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